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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
The crossing hands part (and the final coin is cleaner too).
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
How does covering the coins with your hands make a VISUAL coin routine?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
Ok, it's not the most VISUAL per say in that you don't see things flying across, but it is the most MAGICAL I guess I would say. It's visual in that you openly show the amount of coins on each side just before one travels with just a slight rub. It really can't be beat by a 3Fly routine in my opinion.
And your hands never move near each other or pick any coins up. |
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I think Jonathan is looking at the word "visual", the way Jamy Ian Swiss describes it in Shattering Illusions.
Jamy states that a really visual effect should be out in the open to watch for everyone. So nothing is covered. In his words, things like shadow-coins or a lot of coinmagic which most of us consider visual tricks are not purely visual but have a visual quality. Come to think of it very few tricks are really visual. But the ones that are get really good reactions; haunted deck, levitations, some color-changes or coins-across with palm up hands (Which I think Jon is a pioneer with).
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
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Badger Elite user Ireland 401 Posts |
Other then Barry Taylor's "Shellshocked" video where can I find John Kennedy's "Translocation"? This seems like a good routine, some one please help...
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Jonathan -
Your comment made me laugh out loud because it made me wonder what the heck I was talking about when I said that "Translocation" was visual. After thinking about it further, I reached the same conclusion as that which was voiced by others above including Dan LeFay. The effect is not "visual" in the "strictest" sense of the term in that you don't actually see the magic happen. (You also don't actually see a coin travel across in any version of 3-Fly I know of.) As Dan LeFay mentions, "Translocation" has a "visual quality," which I believe is stronger than the visual quality found in most other coins across effects. I believe that's true because the coins appear to travel with the magician doing very little and the "vanishes" almost have a "retention of vision" quality about them. The only "object" across effect I know of that I'd call visual in the strictest sense of the word is Carney's cards up the sleeve where you actually see a card crawl across his chest. There may be other such effects, but none come to mind. Badger - The effect is in print in John Kennedy's lecture notes #3. They're not easy to find, but I may know where you can locate one copy so PM me if you're interested. Larry D. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
What makes my coins across unusual is that the coins are not covered, and pretty much kept in open display even when the action happens. The last vanish is pretty visual, and the coin appearances are also pretty close to visual. All that's lacking is a silver blur that floats from one hand to the other. Also, no hand waving... it's the coins that are supposed to be moving, not my hands. I think of the routine as more 'open' than visual.
I agree that one can change the touch on the Roth and Kennedy routines to make the action seem to happen as you wave your hands over the coins. One wave, one jump. I asked some of my elders about going perfectly visual, as in what was later published by Jay Sankey using Chinese coins. The feeling was then, and still remains that imagery created by the audience imagination will tend to be stronger than images that can be presented to the audience. One more perfectly visual item comes to mind...there was a flying card gimmick that allowed a card to float between the hands on the market at one point.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Chris Kenner does have an open hands coins across in his book, and he calls it The Deep. I guess it's visual. Ive never actually performed it for anyone, but it sure is fun to practice.
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
The Sankey coin-assembly came to mind with me as well.
But I've never seen it performed, have you? If I remember well it was a pipedream because the IT wasn't strong enough to accomplish the effect. Maybe now with the kevlar generation??? I completely agree with the notion that images created by ones' imagination tends to be stronger than images perceived visually. Still I think that a sparse, really visual effect could function as a "call-back" for helping create a vivid image in the spectator's mind. Interesting thread this is! I've been bringing Shadow Coins into a new dimension lately. It can be done, but only under strict conditions. If you want to know what I mean read the introduction by David Copperfield in Out of control. What seems to be an exaggeration from David is actually possible and it looks way visual without actually being so;-)
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
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Jason Wethington Special user Orlando, Fl 615 Posts |
Fonda if you can find Magic Man Examiner the precursor to "The Deep" is there. It is better and more "visual".
I agree with the elders Jon mentions. When we extract imagination, specifically allowing our audiences to formulate suppositions in their minds, we are eliminating the key component of what creates magic. In my opinion if a spectator could "see" a coin float across from one hand to the other there is no mystery and absolutely no magic. Jason |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
If something happens in plain sight... it's not magic. Just technology in action. I hold that magic is a FEELING more than a direct perception. In particular, a feeling about the 'whatever' that must have 'done whatever' even though it was not itself seen. The size and shape of a hole in our world-map.
I hold the position that having events seem to happen 'just out of the corner or their eyes' is about as close to the edge as makes sense at this time. I go for the image out of Alice where she is in a shop and the stuff goes and hides from her on the shelves. One object just goes through the ceiling! Have a look at that passage in 'Through the Looking Glass' and let me know how you feel about this. <- Anyone know how to program a smiley? I would like one where the face fades leaving the grin... then the grin fades. Serious request.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Badger Elite user Ireland 401 Posts |
Jonathan Townsend Hit the nail on the head. Instead of looking for a visual coins across you could change your patter. When I do David Roth’s coins across with the shell , I talk about teleportation and breaking the laws of physics. Believe it or not laymen acutely buy it, how ever I it is convincing, and my patter along with the trick packs a punch. Hop this helps.
Badger |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-02-03 11:21, Jason Wethington wrote: I think that a floating coin is magical, but in this context I think it's actually more comical, and in fact I developed a similar effect that plays very well in the real world where a float provides a comical false explanation of the secret to the effect. It's not a coin effect, but the idea could be adapted to a coins across effect so I'll explain. I haven't tipped this to many magicians, but I will provide a brief description here. It's a two in the hand, one in the pocket effect I developed using plastic flies. I place two plastic flies in one of my hands and my other hand places a third plastic fly in my pocket. The fly in my pocket vanishes and appears back in my other hand to join the two flies there. I repeat this a second time. I then explain that I'll reveal the secret. I say that I've simply trained the third fly to fly out of my pocket and join the other two. Audiences chuckle, until I pick up one of the flies and just as my hand reaches my pocket the fly floats (flies) horizontally and lands in my open hand to join the other two flies (using a horizontal hook-up of IT to a fly swatter which I use as a magic wand). You should see the expression on spectators' faces when that happens. Last, depending on the crowd, sometimes end by placing two flies in the spectator's hand and one in my pocket, ask the spectator to close her hand, and when she opens it there are still just two flies there. I look puzzled and say I'm not sure where the third fly went, but maybe we can find out if she dumps the remaining two flies into my hand. When she does that, she sees a spider stuck to the back of her hand, which apparently has eaten the third fly and gets a scream (think Jim Pace's "The Web.") I use this only if the spectator isn't arachnophobic, which I determine through my patter. By the way, I've named this effect "Three Fly." Hope this sparks some ideas on a coins across effect - - possibly the eagle on the tail side of the coin flies across to your other hand? Larry D. |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
I've always used the Eagle flying bit, sets up the muscle pass at the end of a flurry for me. Also, if you're looking for a visual coins across, I suggest Micheal Ammar's Incredible Coins across from his book the Magic of Michael Ammar. I think it's on the first easy to master money miracles video but I'm not sure if the last coin goes to the spec's hands on the vid. Basically three coins travel to the spectator's open cupped hands. The first two coins your hand is hovering over their hands but then for the final coin both hands are far away from their cupped hands and the coin literally materializes a few inches above their hands and drops onto the other two. I get literal SCREAMS from this routine. Very easy to do and very visual at the end. I feel that having the visual strong ending is better than having it be visual all througout. If it's visual all througout, there are no surprises and the routine doesn't have a peak. In the Ammar routine, you throw them off with your hands covering theirs and they think they have it figured out...just at that moment, your hands are nowhere near theirs and that last coin just materializes and drops.
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Actually, that's John Kennedy's routine (I worked with John and saw him develop it in the 80's). It's really strong, but you sometimes have to worry about angles on the last coin.
Larry D. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Also curious about that. Michael Ammar usually credits material in his books. Are there credits where you found the routine?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Larry, now that you mention it, that really does sound like the kind of thing John Kennedy would think of. I don't suppose John published it anywhere back then?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
It doesn't say anything about Kennedy in Ammar's book...let me go look again. He just says it's an old way to vanish a coin used in a new way. He mentions it's the first trick he performed when he met David Copperfield. That's about it. Why worry about angles? I worry about premature exposure really if you know what I mean, I guess that could mean angles. But I've found the right spot. Either way you have to admit, it is a STRONG piece of magic.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Small joke here... would that be a worry about male pattern exposure?
The 'appearance' method did get around in the early 80s. Was the 'into their hands' thing a Dingle idea?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
I have no idea Jon. All I know is that I use the routine and it may be easier with the male pattern, I have a tendency to slide around.
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