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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I've seen it mentioned in some threads over the years - and I have to ask this as a serious question...
do some of you truly judge a book(let) on its page total? do you equate value of content in some way, to value for money? i've seen the question posed a few times... "How many pages is this?" and "Its only 25 pages long, how can I be worth X amount"... honestly curious...
I've asked to be banned
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MatthewSims Special user 778 Posts |
I think what matters most is that an adequate amount of thought and work has gone into the book/booklet, in order to explain the process at be. If something can be clearly illustrated in 5 or so pages, great. The thing that puts me off is when people try to publish half constructed ideas just to get their name out there (unless they have advertised it as something still in the works).
I have no problem purchasing something that is just a few pages, as long as those pages illustrate a full/solid effect, and not just some "idea". I think a perfect example of this is Matthew Mello's wonderful "Thread of Life". |
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MatthewSims Special user 778 Posts |
Come to think of it, the majority of the time I'd rather have fewer pages. I hate having to read through a book and coming across redundant paragraphs over and over, which clearly scream "filler".
That being said, I think a lot of people leave out things that I find important and interesting. Things such as... -How the effect or idea came about/ history - History and Origin of certain principles being used and where they can be found -The growth process of the effect, how it looked when started vs. how it looks now -Effects or ideas similar to the one being illustrated Matthew |
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Athos Elite user NADO - Mind reader 481 Posts |
To me personally it depends on the author writing skills, if he involves interesting stories, real life examples I will never believe something to be seen as filler, I enjoy reading others. As long as I get everything that was presented in the advertisement or the purpose of the book, the page count is irrelevant to me. I love honest, well presented, fully explored writing. The value of a book is subject to opinion, hobbyist can see buying books as a past-time, professionals will see it as an investment, if it fills any of the two fields and it is targeted to it's attached audience, I think it will have value.
Nothing gets me more angry than a unedited, expensive, rushed and spiritless e-book.
NADO
«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?» - Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA «Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.» - David Meclomesnil, weekend radio. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Here's what made me ask (apart from certain posts over the years in here)..
i recently won a fair few old mentalism booklets, including first edition annemann booklets, and a stewart james one - the james one is eight pages all told, with four more with adverts...in those eight pages you get taught a move, and then get given a dozen effects...now, if I used three of those with my own presentations, I would (in today's money) be happy to have spent £30 or more...yet, its only a dozen pages... some people have seemed outraged at a low page count and it made me wonder... and I certainly get people advertising say a 300 page book, but you find out its in a very large print, odd spacing and a poor font choice...and the actual content is maybe only 180, and then if you reduced the font down - maybe 120? but that's more a styling issue, rather than content...because if those 120 contained superb info - who cares? thanks for the thoughts so far...
I've asked to be banned
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Dr. JK Inner circle Sandusky, OH 1191 Posts |
I personally never judge a book[let] by the page count, since if I'm judging it, it means that I own it and have read it. At that point, the page count is irrelevant since I know what I have gotten from those pages, and whether they are dense with information or nothing but filler for chapters and chapters.
However, I think page count can be one of any number of valid metrics to consider when making a purchase in which you *don't* know the contents. That's why reviews from trusted sources are so important to me before making a purchase, because I may have no idea as to the content's usefulness to me, regardless of page count. |
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Gumar Oz DuBar Loyal user 244 Posts |
I'll keep it short and simple. My answer is no. Book judgement is based on what I personally get out of it.
I write and edit text.
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
What really "grinds my gears" are the tricks people use to inflate the page count: Huge margins/spacing, lots of white space, larger than normal font, title only pages, copyright/dedications/bibliographies/other products counted as pages, etc. This seems dishonest and makes me feel cheated.
s |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 10, 2014, the Sponge wrote: aaaaaaah! so it matters to you? so part of the allure of a purchase IS the page count? why is that, please?
I've asked to be banned
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Athos Elite user NADO - Mind reader 481 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 10, 2014, the Sponge wrote: I think it depends on how the book is advertised; Here is two scenario: #1 Advertisement: 300 pages of exciting and exclusive content Price: 50$ Book: 300 pages full of white and redundant stuff Buyer: angry #2 Advertisement: Learn this and that and this thing as well. Price: 50$ Book: 300 pages full of white and redundant stuff Buyer: happy.
NADO
«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?» - Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA «Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.» - David Meclomesnil, weekend radio. |
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Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4187 Posts |
I think the simple answer is it depends. It comes down to marketing. Is it a book, a pamphlet, an effect etc. if I'm buying something by Bob Cassidy for instance I know the content is going to be solid gold and worth the price. However my expectations will be totally different if I'm buying a Bob Cassidy Book vs a Bob Cassidy effect. If I thought I was buying a book and I received a pamphlet I may be disappointed by the quantity despite being extremely happy with the quality.
The biggest challenge is putting a price on ideas and experience, a page of Bob's would hold more value within that single page than a full ream of my ramblings. However the less discerning would potentially make the mistake of thinking that a ton of my crap would represent better value for money than an ounce of Bob's solid gold. The bottom line is that no matter what the page count there will always be those that can see the true value of the words within those pages, and those that don't know sheet from shinola. Mark |
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 10, 2014, IAIN wrote: Lies matter to me. I was mainly complaining about advertising false page count. Even if the content is good, I'm going to notice and be irritated at what I see as a lie. Doesn't mean it isn't worth the price; I just feel deliberately deceived. But it makes one ask, if the content is worth it, why lie about page count? Just say it's 10 pages or whatever. I think that speaks some to the author's view of the product. But to answer your question: I would say page count (size) is one of the several ways people assess value of an unknown product. Certainly not the most important way. But if you were choosing between authors you knew little about and the price was the same, you would probably go with the higher page count. And then you would learn from the result. If one author uses a lot of filler, then you know you shouldn't use that as part of your criteria later. I hope that helped, s |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
So whether or not you received great value in a written product, Sponge, it would still be the *page count* that matters to you?
Crazy. I'm going to write the rest of my books in .02% script from now on and while it will only be 8-9 pages long after all is said and done, you'll still have the EXACT SAME VALUE in the end. (Magnifying glass NOT included!) What some readers might consider "filler" can likewise be something the author/creator/producer felt necessary to include for his/her own reasons and not meant to deceive you or take your hard earned cash under false pretexts. In the end, if you don't get at least as much as you've given and invested in turn, I see THAT ALONE as the sole reason to be dissatisfied and I wouldn't purchase from that person again, personally. J.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
Contraversial as this sounds, the majority of ebooks and booklets that I have purchased with fewer than 25 pages have been of very limited value to me. It's not the length that defines the value, but I note from a quick browse of my collection that the short books (with some exceptions) seem to be the "I've just had a brain fart, I'm going to type it up and sell it" sort of material. Yeah, sure, there are 200 page books that are overrated and I get little out of, but I can see that when someone goes to the effort of typing up and having printed a reasonably-sized work, they tend to take the job more seriously. Even if there's a lot of filler, they've generally got something worthwhile to say. Short books can certainly influence my thinking, but nothing that I currently perform regularly has it's roots in the low-page-count works.
The above is all after-the-fact realisation. I didn't start out with a bias towards long books, and I've never noticed these facts until right now. It's not how I judge the value of a work, but at the end of the day, it does seem to have a bearing on the way I read, learn and absorb. Interesting. (to me, anyway)
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Too many "books" that are released nowadays aren't books at all, just padded out articles that would have been better suited for submission to a magazine for free.
But that's what happened when self-publishing became so easy. ANYONE can write a "book" nowadays. That said, page count is meaningless IF the content is there. Annemann once apologized that one of his effects was printed on just a single sheet. "But, then again," he noted," So is a thousand dollar bill." |
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Craig Logan Special user Michigan 541 Posts |
If you receive (what you personally deem) valuable advice, inspiration, or workable material, the page count is irrelevant.
As am aside, some authors use fonts, page layouts, and other techniques not simply to pad their page count, but because they felt artistically led to make certain decisions. Seems to be much ado, but that's my 2 pennies.
"A wizard is not to be made in a day." -Professor Hoffmann (Modern Magic)
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psychomind New user 97 Posts |
Page count is irrelevant in my opinion, as long as the content is good.
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konjurer Veteran user Iowa 395 Posts |
I don't really look at page count when I'm making a purchase. That being said, I've generally been happier with longer works than short booklets.
I want to know the thinking behind an effect. I want to read that the author has fully baked ideas and performed the effect several times. I'm a big fan of the Bernstein Unreal book. You can tell he has worked out several versions over the years and has covered each version and the evolution of the effect. I purchased one pamphlet book last year from someone who is well respected on this forum. After reading glowing reviews I bought the "book." It was TERRIBLE! It took "minimalistic" to new heights. The thinking behind each effect was completely absent in an area of mentalism that requires careful manipulation of the spectator. I haven't really ran into books with lots of fluff. So for me, more is more.
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Clever stuff goes here! |
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Kurt Demey New user 6 Posts |
From what number of page you will call it a book? I never look at the number of pages. But the moment that you ask yourself if the book is worth his price, then there is something not good (for you). And a small book have the risk that it is criticized on the number of his pages, yes.
Actually, I criticized a book on his number of INTERESTING pages. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
As a professional writer, page count is completely irrelevant. We are judged on word count. Pages can be blank or widely spaced, meaning plenty of pages with little content. This is particularly so with ebooks. Traditional books do not have this problem because paper costs money, and to keep costs down the layout is generally tight.
I couldn't care less how long or short a work is; I have got value from both. But if someone advertises an ebook by listing the page count, it immediately sets the alarms ringing in my head. If someone advertises a 100 page ebook, I immediately drop that down in my head to 40 pages. And I think, if he is lying to me in the pitch, do I really need his book? So page count (which should be word count) is not important. But the fact that it is mentioned in the advertising is important - it is a disincentive for me to buy.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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