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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » For real buskers only -- a question (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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RobertBloor
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Curt is right.

I can't recall which Supreme Court case established, "TPM" but if a jurisdiction wants to say, "You may busk all you want and collect all the money you want, and say anything you want...but all performers must remain within this 2 square foot area,," then there is no fight to fight.

Personally, I believe it's more than a permit issue. It's a permit & enforcement issue.

Sure you could charge $300 to issue a permit. But if the cops don't remove the people breaking the rules then what good does it do?

Frankly the whole issue of "free speech" being used by buskers, no offense guys, is a joke.

Businesses have a right to free speech; they still need business licenses.

Televisions stations have rights to free speech, but they still must comply with FCC regulations.

The list could go on and on. Bottom line here, we're conducting commerce and should be regulated.

On the flip side, I wish people like Jacquelin Clarkson, the council women for the French Quarter would pull her head out of her ***.

She's ignorant to the point that she's losing a mega-income stream for the city of New Orleans - not just from 'permits,' but from tourists whom the city could actively educate about the performers, who to tip and who to avoid (ie: the drunk guy who bets you $10 he can tell you that you, "got yo shoes on yo feet.").

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
JamesinLA
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Robert,
What about regulating what you can do? One nearby town that requires a permit won't let performers use fire. I put down scissors on my permit application and was told to scratch it out or the permit wouldn't pass. (I use the scissors for cut and restored rope.) In the other town I busk, anything goes, including fire, and no permit is required.

Per television broadcasters and the FCC, I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges comparision because it's not their free speech that is being regulated, but rather, they are being granted access to the airwaves, which is owned by us, the public.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
RobertBloor
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James,

Fire is something regulated anywhere ya go. (I know that sounds funny, "how can you regulate fire?" but you get my point)

As for what you use in the act...don't list scissors. Seems like a simple solution to me.

Perhaps the FCC comparison was a different fruit.

However I still feel the bottom line is that a lot of performers want to have their cake and eat it too.

There is nothing wrong with regulation and appropriate enforcement.

The regulation should limit the number of said performers on a given day/time etc. That takes care of a lot of things like tarot readers lined up one after the other, 5 magicians on one block etc.

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Leland Stone
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Quote:
What do you think of street performing permits, if they are required by the city?

Hi, Bill:

IN RE: Street Performing Permits

[Are they a necessary evil?]

No. I believe that citizens should be free to perform, just as others should be free to watch or ignore the performance, thus performers would be regulated by the market rather than governmental fiat. Performing permits make no more sense to me than dog licenses do.

I'm not advocating anarchy -- certainly a performer shouldn't be allowed to block driveways, etc., with their performance. I'm simply not convinced that government needs to micro-manage the lives of its citizenry a la "1984."

[Do you just put up with them?]
Yep. Where necessary, I obtain permits prior to performing. The local government may be a glorified Homeowners Association, but unlike my HOA, this one's got fellas with guns and handcuffs enforcing its provisions.

[Do they help keep out the riff-raff?]
Gotta agree with another poster's observation -- I see no correlation between permits and a decrease in crime.

[Do you just ignore them and perform anyway?]
ONLY if I'm not busking. As another poster has commented, if there's money involved, then performing Magic is no longer purely a "free speech" issue.

Sincerely,
Leland Edward Stone
Bill Palmer
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I would like to thank all of you for posting your opinions. I'm not for street performing permits, myself, but some of the municipalities I deal with seem to think they may be a good idea.

I am curious about them, because Houston now has a really nice "uptown" area that I feel would profit greatly if busking performers were allowed to use it. But we have several problems in Houston. One is a HUGE homeless problem. Another is a city council that faces a depleted treasury because of the spendthrift policies of our former administration. The city council here has been loath to permit busking street performers.

I want to approach them with the idea of allowing buskers to use the area, but I am NOT going to mention performing permits. However, if the subject comes up, I want to be able to state that I have polled various busking performers within my greater circle of acquantanceship and be able to make at least some intelligent comments on the subject.

I am now going to ask the staff to lock the topic.
"The Swatter"

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JamesinLA
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Good luck, Bill! Let us know how you make out.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Bill Palmer
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Will do!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Scott Xavier
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Lets face it, the rif-raf will just perform with out a permit as most do. When you perform and accept money, is it not a form of revenue and as such a business? You should have some sort of regulation of business especially to generate revenue to aid in creation of departments to better structure the performers.

With that BS said, I think their lame. $60 in Chicago! that's insane!
Mario Morris
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Mario Morris
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I say "it is easer to apologize than to ask for a permit."
:bawl:
wassabi_87
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Where I'm from (northern Idaho), we are not required to have a permit to do magic, as long as we are not blocking any doors or anything.

This is fine, it makes sense to me why the city does this, if you don't charge performers anything, and if the performers don't get in the way, then its good for both the city and the magician, we get our tips, and they have something that might attract tourists, etc.

I asked around and the city only charges you if you are a street vendor, and if you ar actualy charging for a product. p.s. I beleive that the proper term is actualy just plain old forum, formi, neutrius generis.
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espmagic
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Bill -

Ooh, here's one to get the dander up: don't mention permits, but if they are concerned about the "quality" of the performers, then suggest that perhaps you(?!?) and/or a few others be hired into a position of "regulator", or, one who chooses...this way the quality of the performer can be regulated.

Here in Canada a busker can work where they please (at least in my home town) but there does seem to be a general "politeness" about everyone, and those who use bad material ("bad" referring to foul or suggestive language, etc.) are usually pushed aside by the other buskers, as we all want the same ability, and don't want to lose the right(?) to perform.

Since we are self-policing, no "jury" system seems necessary - we have the largest (I'm told) by-invitation Street Performer's festival in North America, where you can come and play if you are asked. And we have the largest Fringe festival (so I am told) in North America, where you can stand on one foot and point your toes at passers-by, and if you can call it art, regardless of your talent or ability, and you are prepared to pay the small fee for the ten day festival, you can do anything. Good or not.

Hmm...a "real" job...hmm...


Lee
Paddy
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Here in Cincinnati OH, we have a buskers permit law. I went and got a permit like a good little boy one year. I was told later that I had to file a city income tax form. OK I did and reported an income from busking. They then sent me a bill for 2.1% City Income Tax PLUS (You'll love this one) 6.5% SALES tax on my reported income from busking.

Needless to say I was down to the tax office the next morning asking "how the h*&l can you have a sales tax on TIPS!!!! I was doing magic and passing a hat not selling anything!!!" Well I was inform that if I did not pay the tax the City of Cincinnati could attach my wages. Whe I explained I am a self employed magician and entertainer they told me they could impound ansd sell my car for back taxes.

I had only declared about $250 in income anyway so I paid the taxes and have never bothered to get a permit again. SALES taxes on TIPS!!! God I think their IQ is equal to a bra size.

Peter
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Bill Palmer
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Those are not issues in our area, because we have no city or state income tax, and sales tax would not apply. Remind me not to work in Cincy!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Michael Lee
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Hello All

As I have already mentioned it is harder & harder to make any sort of head way in this issue Here in New York City the Police Insists that you have a permit, Yes ! even in a public place. ( Thanks but No thanks) Remember freedom of speech & Expression? It has even come to the point here , Where the Police/Storm troppers will Confascate an Artist Paintings, Props & tools of his trade, Give him a ticket & make him pay a fine as well. Is this the America our forefathers Envisioned?
As a good friend & Student of the "Legendary" Street performer Jeff Sheridan. We have bacially thrown in the towell on this Issue & have moved our work into Theaters.
In America NO! (Magic Castle & club dates really don't pay a liveable enough wage) Europe does !! Best of Luck all.
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