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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Ukraine v Russia (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tomsk192
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2014, Chessmann wrote:

Image


"Speak for yourself, sir!"


I do.

By rights I should shoulder arms with Ukrainian citizens immediately. What a *****, I am sat at home merely commenting. Says it all.
Chessmann
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Yeah, I kind of feel the same - often. Actually, I'm planning on going to Ukraine in the summer, and then again in the Fall. We'll see how those plans work out.

(I hope it was was clear that I was commenting solely on the cat taking offense at the 'cat term' being used negatively) Smile
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
tomsk192
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I know that. Smile

I'm also aware that you have links with there, as you have alluded to before. If I could be of use, I'd be glad to help.

In the meantime, do as much good as you can.
landmark
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2014, Chessmann wrote:
Yeah, I kind of feel the same - often. Actually, I'm planning on going to Ukraine in the summer, and then again in the Fall. We'll see how those plans work out.


Hi Chessman. I think you mentioned in a different thread that you would be speaking to friends in Ukraine. Any word back from them about the amount of influence from Nazi-inspired groups among the protesters and new government officials?
Destiny
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The ordinary people who risk their lives to try and make a better world for their kids always seem to get shafted in these things - look at the poor Egyptians - the exquisite choice of being bludgeoned by the army or the islamists.
tommy
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Looks like it is all over bar the shouting. It seems Kiev have bottled it and caved in and Russia have won the battle for east Ukraine. Kiev have given in to the main demand of pro-Russian militants and carried out no attack so far.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2014, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 13, 2014, Chessmann wrote:
Yeah, I kind of feel the same - often. Actually, I'm planning on going to Ukraine in the summer, and then again in the Fall. We'll see how those plans work out.


Hi Chessman. I think you mentioned in a different thread that you would be speaking to friends in Ukraine. Any word back from them about the amount of influence from Nazi-inspired groups among the protesters and new government officials?


No, I didn't, and I didn't ask again. I know they are there, I just am not sure how much influence they have, currently. I certainly don't feel that influence on the society while I am there, and when I am talking with Ukrainians I work with (among whom this type of subject can come up easily) this kind of influence isn't on the radar screen.

However, much of my work has been in the west, and I am only in the last year or so s-l-o-w-l-y branching eastward.

My feeling is that the former Soviet countries are "behind the curve", time-wise, by a few decades in comparison to the west (in many ways), and am hopeful that over time the overtly negative influences will eventually fade greatly.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
landmark
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I certainly hope you're right. Do you mind saying what kind of work you do there?
Chessmann
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I take teams of laypeople over to Ukraine (and Venezuela - I've really got the countries with no political issues, don't I Smile ). The North Americans I take partner up with Ukrainian believers and interpreters and we share the Gospel with folks in the areas where the local Ukrainian leadership wants to start new groups of believers. That's the reader's digest version, but pretty much sums it up.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
critter
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We're all going to die.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
landmark
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That's the way it's been working for a long long time, critter. Not exactly breaking news.
critter
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Just figured I'd give a brief summary of everything on the major news.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
landmark
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tommy
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Hold that result! Looks like they have gone and done something: "Shots were fired in Kramatorsk airport as Ukrainian special forces stormed in to reassert Kiev's control. As troop helicopters hovered above and tempers flared, a Ukrainian general was set upon by a group of local people incensed that two protesters had been injured, knocking off his military-issue fur hat and yelling, "Jail him."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ap......ict-east
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Destiny
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Quote:
On Apr 14, 2014, Chessmann wrote:
I take teams of laypeople over to Ukraine (and Venezuela - I've really got the countries with no political issues, don't I Smile ). The North Americans I take partner up with Ukrainian believers and interpreters and we share the Gospel with folks in the areas where the local Ukrainian leadership wants to start new groups of believers. That's the reader's digest version, but pretty much sums it up.


Just watching the latest on the news which is not looking good - starting to think Mr Putin intends taking all of Ukraine back, or at least the east and getting a compliant government in Kiev.

Chessman, do you get any sense of what ordinary Ukranians think of Russia when you're there? It's hard to trust what we get from the media because they of course are going to show us the most partisan people they can find.
tommy
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The Freemasons are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

The hand of the St. Stanislaus Order Masonic Lodge I fancy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Destiny
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So if we remove the double negative, we get - the Freemasons are the men that will be blamed for 'some' or 'any' thing or just plain thing?
Chessmann
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Destiny, the feeling I get is that there are 3 categories of Ukrainians with regard to their feelings toward Russia (I added Tatars after):

- those who have a mild or moderate or a real dislike of Russia (varies east to west, but you'll find these sentiments everywhere). I have to say though, that "anti-Russian-ness" never seemed to be a part of general daily life.

- those who prefer Ukraine, but are so tired of the rampant political corruption in daily life (goverment, police, etc...) that they are desperate for change, and they see Russia as an opportunity in these days for change. I think the years of corruption as a reason the Kiev protests started is much more significant than is generally credited.

- the Tatars of Crimea have an intense distrust of Russia, and many have fled to the west of Ukraine. I know some people who are housing some Tatars, temporarily.

- those who really do prefer Russia...though my feeling is that much of the pro-Russia stuff is being helped along and/or staged by Russia(ns). But no doubt there are Ukrainians with very pro-Russia sentiments.

I remember once being in a taxi in Kiev, and the driver was speaking Russian. I asked him if he was Russian, and his response was an instant and definite "Nyet!" Smile There is also a very large metal arch in Kiev (think of a single McDonalds arch, but huge) that was built in Soviet times to symbolize unity between Ukraine and Russia. I good Ukrainian friend commented, but humorously, "A lot of people here would like to cut a gap in it." The more I type, the more I think it is rather like Republicans and Democrats! Smile
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Destiny
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On Apr 16, 2014, Chessmann wrote:

I remember once being in a taxi in Kiev, and the driver was speaking Russian. I asked him if he was Russian, and his response was an instant and definite "Nyet!" Smile



Smile

We've never had the sort of corruption in Australia where ordinary citizens are accosted every day by public officials for bribes etc and the idea of it terrifies me - I can't even haggle with a stall holder - I'd be hopeless in that environment - so I understand their frustration.
Chessmann
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I failed above to mention the economy as a nagging (understatement) problem.

I remember a few years ago driving across the country to Kiev a small group of Ukrainians and I were stopped by the police. It was kind of out in the middle of nowhere. The policeman took our passports and just waited. We made busy by looking under the hood of the car (we'd been having a little car trouble, so the car's owner used the time to snoop around, and we stood around the car and chatted so that we looked unconcerned about the passports). Eventually the policeman gave them back and we went on our way. He had just been waiting for a bribe. Fortunately, he didn't press the matter when none was forthcoming.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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