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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Ukraine v Russia (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tommy
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Corruption, yes that is the root of the problem. When the Soviet Union came down then the Freemasonry were quick to move in and set up their lodges, to get the powers that be in to win the contracts, that's why and how its done. A few years back an MP submitted a bill entitled “On amendments to the Criminal Code of Ukraine”, according to which, membership of Freemason organizations, or any other organizations that require rituals and oaths of higher priority than the current law, must be punished by a jail sentence of up to three years. Ukraine is rich in minerals and the peasants ought to be rich but not because they have plundered by the Freemasonry. Clubbed to death, as they say. The Ukraine don't not need to be part Euro or Russia, who both are only their resources. All they need is to rid themselves of clubs as the man said.

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Tommy
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Well, I am not much concerned honestly speaking for what happens in this part of the world. However, this caught my eye in the article:

Quote:
Ukraine on Thursday disbanded an army unit that lost six armoured vehicles to pro-Russian militants, as Kiev's military reeled from a disastrous attempt to oust separatists in its eastern regions.

"The 25th parachute brigade, members of which showed cowardice and gave up their weapons, will be demobilised and the guilty servicemen brought before court," acting President Oleksandr Turchynov told parliament.

Ukraine's enfeebled army suffered a major embarrassment Wednesday as a much-hyped "anti-terrorist" operation to force pro-Moscow protesters out of a string of eastern towns descended into humiliating farce when separatists seized six armoured personnel carriers and forced another mechanised column of troops to disarm.


http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-disbands-a......083.html

My god, I wouldn't want to have that kind of dishonor and disgrace branded on me for the rest of my life that these soldiers who are being brought to court is going to have once the Ukrainians are finished with them. Of course, these soldiers are going to get what they deserve too. But it's not the sort of dishonor and disgrace any soldier would want to have. I would be pretty upset too if I were the Ukrainians. They certainly deserve better from their soldiers. I just commented on this part of the article because I know how important honor is among soldiers and doing the bidding of the nation that you serve.
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Destiny
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Difficult to make a call on that - I saw a story somewhere that said they were recent conscripts or doing National Service and a young soldier guarding the tanks said they were not prepared to fire on their own people at the behest of Kiev, and that the Russians had offered them food, unlike their own superiors.

I don't know if there was any truth in the story, but while my sympathies lie with Ukraine, it's hard to understand why they would send inexperienced, unproven and unfed kids into a situation like this. It's not as though we're at the tail end of a long and exhausting conflict - surely they have highly experienced special services that would have been better deployed.
General_Magician
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Ukraine is a poor country which doesn't have a lot of resources to invest building an effective military. But then again, on the other hand, I know their are poor countries which have good soldiers. In many cases these same soldiers are also better than our own more pampered and soft soldiers that come from the more rich and developed Western nations. Poorer nations, because they lack resources for a high tech army, put more training into their individual soldiers because they have to rely less on firepower and technology and more on their infantry due to this lack of resources to spend on the military.

So, just because a nation is poor is not an excuse for lack of discipline and cowardice. The soldiers had a duty to follow orders and do as they are told and it probably would have helped to have experienced leadership if these conscripts lacked experience but I am not sure if the Ukrainians have experienced leadership in their services either. They might have a few old veterans from the Soviet Afghan War but many of them are long out of the services and too old to serve. However orders are orders and they failed to obey so now they should suffer the consequences which I am sure they will. The leadership (ie the superiors) of these soldiers should suffer more severe consequences than what consequences are meted out to the lower ranking conscript soldiers. Everything starts with the leadership and their leadership should be held to a higher standard.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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tommy
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Against the might of Russia, the Ukraine would be better off forming an underground resistance. Or small force, with one thought in mind: Kill Darius.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2014, tommy wrote:
Against the might of Russia, the Ukraine would be better off forming an underground resistance. Or small force, with one thought in mind: Kill Darius.


Josip Broz Tito had and Bosnia still has a vast network of underground tunnels (from when Tito built them). When he told Stalin to go screw himself his plan was to arm every single man, woman and child with an AK and use the vast underground tunnels he built to wage a guerrilla campaign against any occupying Soviet force. I believe Tito would have tied up the Soviets just like he tied up the Nazis during World War II with partisan warfare. He knew what he was doing. I think Stalin was wise not to invade the former Yugoslavia at the time. Plus, you have the mountainous terrain of the former Yugoslavia in addition to the underground tunnels that Tito built. Ukraine would probably need a vast network of underground tunnels to resist any Russian invasion.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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