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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » New Cold Reading Book! (103 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Peter_turner
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V.I.P.
Bradford, West Yorkshire
1328 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 8, 2014, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
Err......that would be 'tome', I think.


Aye auto correct on my phone Smile

LOL you bad lad! xx
mastermindreader
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V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

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I sure hope my tomb is all in one place! Smile
Mark_Chandaue
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Inner circle
Essex UK
3755 Posts

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I agree with Pete Bob that your works are underpriced, if I paid 5x the price for the Artful Mentalism 2 I would still think I got more than my monies worth..

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk
Harpacrown Too is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=harpacrown-too
Ophiuchus is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=ophiuchus
Totally Free Will is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=totally-free-will
SolidSnake
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Special user
534 Posts

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Well I disagree. I love Bob's material and in some sense it is priceless. However, I respect Mr Cassidy even more because he releases at a fair price.
There is no holy grail!
IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
18817 Posts

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Bob, yes you're work is underpriced...

I am always available to you if you ever wanted to release some smaller booklets via Lulu.com, from the design to the layout and formatting...
I've asked to be banned
Martin Pulman
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Inner circle
London
3385 Posts

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Bob,

I agree with you that recent releases are becoming seriously over-priced. I think some creators are forgetting that they are standing on the shoulders of giants like yourself, whose work was available at a reasonable price. Without access to those works, the current crop of creators would be stuck doing the 21 card trick.

But this is the 21st century-and monetary gain is king.
mastermindreader
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Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
I agree with Pete Bob that your works are underpriced, if I paid 5x the price for the Artful Mentalism 2 I would still think I got more than my monies worth..

Mark


Would you consider sending me the extra money then? Smile
mastermindreader
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Seattle, WA
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In 1950, according the the first edition of the Amateur Magicians Handbook, Annemann's Practical Mental Effects sold for five dollars.

I went to http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inf......ear=1950 to calculate what the price would be in 2014 dollars. Surprisingly, it would be $49.37.

Maybe that should be used as a benchmark to evaluate the prices of some current materials in relation to what is offered.
cpbartak
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Mooresville, NC
941 Posts

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Since we're spreading Bob's tomb around, I've got dibs on a finger bone or two.
Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.
Mark_Chandaue
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Inner circle
Essex UK
3755 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
I agree with Pete Bob that your works are underpriced, if I paid 5x the price for the Artful Mentalism 2 I would still think I got more than my monies worth..

Mark


Would you consider sending me the extra money then? Smile

If I ever get to meet you I would gladly spend the difference buying you dinner and plying you with the best that Captain Morgan has to offer Smile

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk
Harpacrown Too is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=harpacrown-too
Ophiuchus is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=ophiuchus
Totally Free Will is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=totally-free-will
mastermindreader
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Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

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Deal! (A cigar, too, maybe?)
SolidSnake
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534 Posts

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$50 for Annemann! There you go guys, if you release any book or effect above $50 it has to be at at least as good if not better than Practical Mental Effects - good luck!

I for one will not buy any book, effect or DVD above $100 and it would have to be special to pay $100 for!

In English Money, since things from America do not usually translate at the correct exchange rate. I would not pay above £100 but usually I would be looking for things below £50. That is it, I won't even look at a book that is priced above this because no matter how good it is - it simply won't be worth it!
There is no holy grail!
Mark_Chandaue
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Inner circle
Essex UK
3755 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Bob,

I agree with you that recent releases are becoming seriously over-priced. I think some creators are forgetting that they are standing on the shoulders of giants like yourself, whose work was available at a reasonable price. Without access to those works, the current crop of creators would be stuck doing the 21 card trick.

But this is the 21st century-and monetary gain is king.


I disagree, when I bought Kaufmans Coin magic in the early 80's it cost £35 and Expert Coin Magic was £50. I think I paid around £100 for the leather bound Harbincadabra in the same time frame. In those days the average working wage was around £35 per week for an office worker and around £25 per week for an entry level/apprentice position. Some 30 years later an office worker will average around £275 per week. An entry level position/apprentice gets around £200 per week.

In real terms Coin magic cost the equivalent of around £275. It was a weeks wages, and that's before tax. Expert Coin magic cost 2 weeks wages after tax, so today's equivalent would be in the £400 ball park and I don't recall a single person calling it over priced. Maybe part of the trivialisation of magic and mentalism is because the secrets can be bought too cheaply both in monetary terms and in effort "I opened it 30 minutes ago and I can do it already".

A reasonable price is a funny term, it really means cheap. What is a reasonable price for 40 years of experience? What is a reasonable price for the tools and information required to make a very lucrative career out of magic? A bank will pay 2 grand per day for me to teach their employees how to detect and prevent fraud and I didn't have to go through a fraction of what Bob went through to gain that knowledge I impart to my students. You want a career in IT, you are going to pay around £3000 for an MCSE (or whatever today's equivalent is). I guarantee that course was easier to put together and took far less creativity than goes into a handful of effects.

Bob spent years refining those effects such as 4DT, a lifetime of experience has gone into the advice contained in those books. Let's not forget that the book didn't just spring out of the ground, that took endless hours of typing, and editing and re typing and figuring out how to translate actions into readable instructions. Then proof reading and printing etc. a copy of the Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy, vol 2 and a copy of Maximum entertainment and a little dedication could very easily give you a full time career taking you all over the world and earn you far more than the £3000 investment in an MCSE course could ever earn you. Get a TV deal and it could make you a millionaire.

You are dang right that $65 is too cheap, these books are an investment in your own future as much as they are payment for a "product". Should I ever choose to turn pro I could not even begin to put a realistic value on the contents of Bobs works, Peter's work, and Ken Weber's work to name just a few. Every penny I ever earn as a result of mentalism will be owed to the effort of those who put their knowledge, experience and creativity into written form for the rest of us to benefit from.

What is a "reasonable price" for a book or effect is directly related to the value the creator puts on their time, effort and creativity vs the value that the purchaser can ultimately derive from that product. None of us are entitled to the creativity of others. The fact that Bob is so generous in pricing his works at such an affordable price does not entitle us to expect the same level of generosity from all creators. Every minute typing up or thinking up these ideas is time that could have been spent hugging a loved one or playing with your children or simply hanging out with friends and those are moments you can never get back. How do you put a realistic price on priceless moments?

If creators did not publish, many of us would still be doing the 21 card trick, publishing has to be as much worth their while as purchasing is worth ours. Nobody "needs" these books, we can choose which ones are worth the price to us as individuals. I can say all of this with complete sincerity because I have missed the vast majority of the big ticket releases, as a single parent I simply can't afford them. I would love Ken Dynes new book but right now the funds aren't there. Shame, but I will live without it whilst wishing him every success with the book and hoping those that can afford it derive great enjoyment from it.

I'd love a Bugatti too but I can't afford one and I'm not entitled to one of those either. Sometimes it sucks to be me, and sometimes, like when I'm sitting round a campfire with some of the coolest guys on the planet with a guitar playing, beer being drank, and songs being sung, well then being me is pretty bloody special Smile.

There is more to life than whether you can afford the latest masterpiece.

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk
Harpacrown Too is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=harpacrown-too
Ophiuchus is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=ophiuchus
Totally Free Will is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=totally-free-will
Scott Soloff
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Special user
Philadelphia, PA
960 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Deal! (A cigar, too, maybe?)


I'll supply the cigars.

Best wishes,


Scott
p.s. Smoking a Romeo Y Julieta as I type.
'Curiouser and curiouser."
E.E.
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Inner circle
1516 Posts

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Bob, I think that when you said to the publisher that your book was priceless, they took it too literal...
I shall see you on the other side.
The Hermit
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Loyal user
300 Posts

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Since I was 9 years old, I have been pretty much consistently disappointed by the 'claim vs the reality' of most magic tricks. Books are usually the exception because you can justify the price on one item. I have looked at several of these $300 and up books purchased by friends and found them to be far less valuable than the claim - no need to mention names. There is a lot of pimping new products on the Café' by authors/creators promising a lot. This thread is a great example of fanboy excitement turning to angst when people start questioning it. I have also been around long enough to see that most new stuff is not so new. If you are going to pitch your product here, why not come in with a review by someone that is respected in the industry. Marc Salem's forward was a start after a lot of hemming and hawing about what it is/isn't. Let's see someone look at your work and evaluate the value. If it holds up, you'll sell a bunch. That kind of dough means you should have something really revolutionary to offer. This place is the best free advertising around. However, there really needs to be a lot of caveat emptor.
docdazzal
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Veteran user
San Tan Valley, AZ
343 Posts

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Has anybody actually purchased the book in question here...? If so, how about a review...share with the members here what this book really is or isn't. It seems that the book in question came out of nowhere...then after the promised publication date...it disappeared just as quickly. It is no longer advertised on the authors web site.


Continued Success,
Dr. Dan
Psychic & Paranormal Entertainment
www.drdanandco.com
BCE
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Loyal user
256 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, docdazzal wrote:
Has anybody actually purchased the book in question here...? If so, how about a review...share with the members here what this book really is or isn't. It seems that the book in question came out of nowhere...then after the promised publication date...it disappeared just as quickly. It is no longer advertised on the authors web site.


Has not arrived yet. There's another wave of testimonials, but still no sign of it in the mail.
insight
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Inner circle
3095 Posts

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I was a huge Morgan fan, but then I read this book. PM me if you want my review. I am very disappointed in what I uncovered and I think Morgan made a huge mistake in claiming this book under his authorship.

Regards,
Mike
IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
18817 Posts

Profile of IAIN
I was thinking of buying this, however, I have heard that for the explanations of some of the systems, they have been taken word for word from other sources...is this true?

For example, the part on palmistry, the explanations themselves - if you put them into google (an entire paragraph's worth) - the original sources pop up...

I do not know if this is true, it was something I was told by a purchaser...
I've asked to be banned
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