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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » If you had to choose? Which would they be? (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Head Case
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If you had to create a show, only using the material from 3 videos, what would they be? (Exculding Osterlinds Full vdeos serious on 13 steps that goes over all material)

And to limit it more.. Im looking for effects that are almost, no skill, self working. (Check out mark spelmanns PVP effect) doesn't use a lot of props or billets. Just super simple, powerful, easy to do menalism that would play for a living room or a full blown stage show for a ton of people.

Those are the paramiteres. Not saying that I don't belive the stuff I excluded is GOOD. Im just saying it does not fit what I am looking for.

Im trying to get an idea so some effets that might work.

Ill ask more questions after the first few replys.

Thanks.
Mark_Chandaue
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If I had to create a show only using the material from 3 videos then I'm probably not ready to create a show. Also "a show" is a very non specific term. What kind of show, night club, theatre, corporate. What about duration? But then again ... No!! There is far more to creating a show than stringing a few nice effects together.

Mark
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C.J.
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Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, Derek Castillo wrote:
If you had to create a show, only using the material from 3 videos, what would they be?
...
And to limit it more.. Im looking for effects that are almost, no skill, self working.


I don't like to be the guy who questions the question (honest!), but those two points up there are contradictory to my way of working. Under the parameters you've set, I cannot answer, because if I wanted to create such a bounded show, I would want to include skilful elements.

Is this purely hypothetical, or is the actual question, "I want to knock together a quick show with as little practice as possible, and I have enough money for three dvds; which ones should I pick?"

If it's hypothetical and I can disregard any restrictions on skill, practice, etc, then hypothetically I could build a show from (names obscured since we're in Penny):
- N0th1ng by Max Mav3n
- P5ych0k1net1c S1lv3rwar3 by G3rry and Banach3k
- M1nd 5tunt5 vol 2 by Patr1k Kuff5

But I say that from the perspective of already having crafted shows the long way around, with the experience of knowing what can work with what. I daresay anyone who thinks differently to me will disagree with some of what I've said, but in my head, I can see certain bits and pieces going together from these three (admittedly entry-level) volumes to make a skeleton.

PS. "Entry-level" means very little. Even very simple things in the right hands can make miracles. I remember someone on this board asking how to devise a marking system for photographs so they could do a Derren Brown "Guess Whom" routine. I laughed long and loud that Derren could so skilfully handle an "entry-level" concept, that it would make someone chase down some mythical advanced methodology.
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Craig Logan
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Is there any reason books are excluded? There is a greater wealth and diversity of material in books than video.

I too am curious why these particular parameters were set to create a show. Hoping it's hypothetical and not as C.J. "says the actual question, "I want to knock together a quick show with as little practice as possible, and I have enough money for three dvds; which ones should I pick?"

Videos are great, but reading is fundamental!
"A wizard is not to be made in a day." -Professor Hoffmann (Modern Magic)
robwar0100
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Here's the thing, I have been working on a mentalism show since at least 2001/2003 (never remember which year I began the journey), and I am still not happy with my show. I have materials from Richard Osterlind, Bob Cassidy, Rick Maue, Max Maven, Ian Rowland, Patrick Redford, etc., and I can put together a show, but I am still not happy with it. Probably the reason I am not happy with it is, because, while I have been an ardent student of magic since the 1970s and mentalism for the past decade, I have not taken the time to sit down and figure out exactly what I *want* to do for a show, it has always been what *can* I do.

With influences from Osterlind, Maue and Rudy Coby, I am finally working on creating something uniquely personalized to fit me, my character and my personality. Accomplishing something like that takes more than three DVDs, more than just reading about mentalism and more than just looking for tricks that are easy to execute.

I am not sure who said it, but the hard way is the easy way (it could have been Bob Cassidy quoting from Amateur Magician's Handbook). I once complained about all of the money I have spent on books, videos, DVDs, props and effects that have become useless to me because of where I am as a performer. Richard Osterlind reminded me the journey was not wasted. All of those things have helped shape who I am.

I wish you well in your endeavor. Perform what you like, forget about what we like. If you perform what you like, you will be happy when you get on stage, it will be obvious to your audience and they will like you. Mentalism is so much more than effects/demonstrations/experiments. Mentalism is about you connecting with your audience. Good luck finding out how to do that on a DVD.

Bobby
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twistedace
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"I'm looking for effects that are almost, no skill, self working". You're not going to find many effects in mentalism that fit this criteria. Mentalism requires more work than magic to make it believable even when the mechanics seem easy. You've excluded b****ts which are SUCH a strong resource. They are blank slates to create miracles. It sounds like you're trying to throw together an easy show to market, but please take the time to study some books.

Osterlind's Mind Mysteries and Mind Mysteries Too series are great resources with strong easy material. Bob Cassidy's Mental Miracles is great, but you'll get a lot of insights and ideas from his book, "The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy vol. 2 Fundamentals" as there are GREAT essays, effects, and references to other works in there. Jermay has wonderful material available as instant downloads both videos and books. His newest book, Distractions is great and has some extremely strong and easy material.

Think about the abilities you're going to claim before putting together a show. It will help you decide on which effects will fit you best. Bob Cassidy gave great advice in that the more abilities you claim to have the less believable/credible you are. Good luck!
mastermindreader
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The idea that you can become a mentalist with a "full blown" show that can be done anywhere, from living rooms to stage and TV, is one of the indicators of how the art has become trivialized over the years.

There's a LOT more to building a show than picking out a few self-working commercial effects that can be learned from a DVD.

The effects, in fact, are the LEAST important element.

You're seeking a short-cut that doesn't exists. Master the fundamentals and build upon a strong foundation.
Jamie D
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I suggest you stick to mental magic, check out what Jay sankey has to offer as pure mentalisim just doesn't seem to fit what your after.
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IAIN
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What one person can do might gain rabid applause...in the hands of another, it will be ignored or mocked...

sooooo, do you have sufficient personality, character, voice, presence and charisma to carry it all off?

if you have, you don't really need any advice...

not being clever, but having easy to do stuff has zero to do with your entertainment value...
Athos
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I took Ken Weber maximum entertainment and crammed it into a cd case, does that work?
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mastermindreader
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Imagine a lay person - a potential booker maybe - reading threads like this.

"Oh, so some of these guys simply buy simple magic tricks that anyone can do, call it a "show" and call themselves professionals?

"So there's no real talent then?

"Could anyone suggest a good comedian or even a juggler?"
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
The idea that you can become a mentalist with a "full blown" show that can be done anywhere, from living rooms to stage and TV, is one of the indicators of how the art has become trivialized over the years.

There's a LOT more to building a show than picking out a few self-working commercial effects that can be learned from a DVD.

The effects, in fact, are the LEAST important element.

You're seeking a short-cut that doesn't exists. Master the fundamentals and build upon a strong foundation.


What he said...
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, IAIN wrote:
What one person can do might gain rabid applause...in the hands of another, it will be ignored or mocked...

sooooo, do you have sufficient personality, character, voice, presence and charisma to carry it all off?

if you have, you don't really need any advice...

not being clever, but having easy to do stuff has zero to do with your entertainment value...


Ditto...
'Curiouser and curiouser."
twistedace
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Bob is100% correct. I didn't even think of it this way.
C.J.
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Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Imagine a lay person - a potential booker maybe - reading threads like this.

"Oh, so some of these guys simply buy simple magic tricks that anyone can do, call it a "show" and call themselves professionals?

"So there's no real talent then?

"Could anyone suggest a good comedian or even a juggler?"


On that note, I've been thinking about adding some juggling to my mentalism shows. What are the three best DVDs for learning some juggling tricks I can do? They have to be self-working and not require much skill though, because to be honest, I'm not very coordinated. Thanx.

Smile

Seriously, though. My answer is hypothetical, because I didn't want to be "that guy" who pulls the whole discussion apart and says "There's more to it than that". Plenty of people did that for me, and in real-world terms, I agree with them. I'm working on trying to verbalise my show creation process, because I currently work backwards, starting with what impression I want to make on the audience, then backtracking to decide the best way to do that, THEN finding the DVDs or books that might help me tighten those effects. It's a LABORIOUS process.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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Mark_Chandaue
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My process is very similar save that first I decide on the theme and the overall experience I want to create. Rightly or wrongly I may have a few pet effects that I already want to include and so I will look at where they fit and how to frame and script them to fit with the theme and overall experience (if I can't then they get dropped). Then I will consider which effects I already know that are suitable and then I will look at what other effects I need to tell the story the show is telling. This is the most challenging part because the story creates the effect and I have to find a method for the effect and as the story develops and gets fleshed out sometimes the stuff I already know ends up getting pushed out.

It's a labour of love and a very slow process. I'm working on a theatre show at the moment and I have a venue lined up and around half of the show written but I'd say I am still 12 months away from actually putting the show on. I still have a good 40 minutes of material to find, still need to get all the scripting done and tight. Then of course there is all the stage direction, floor work, prop positioning etc. let's not forget the logistics, how do people get on and off stage and how and when do props etc get on and off stage for that matter. What about the lighting, camera positioning, music and more.

That's before we even get into marketing, publicity and selling tickets, all that work is for naught if we don't get bums on those seats (I mean the British meaning of bums).

Which 3 videos will help me with all of that?

Mark
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John C
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Head Case
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I only read the first two replies. So I'm posting this without reading all the rest, But first of all... I have TONS of videos. This is a challenge post. Not a "Im a beginner and want 3 videos to buy so I can be awesome" type of post. And Yes. Its suppose to be difficult. The idea is to find packs small, plays big, Non-propy, etc etc. effects that are able to be linked together in a show format, (Duration is based off structure and presentation) but can play any size from a living room, to a full blow stage with 200 or more people. Its suppose to be hard to figure out. that's the point. Ill go on reading the rest of the replies now.
Head Case
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Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, C.J. wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, Derek Castillo wrote:
If you had to create a show, only using the material from 3 videos, what would they be?
...
And to limit it more.. Im looking for effects that are almost, no skill, self working.


I don't like to be the guy who questions the question (honest!), but those two points up there are contradictory to my way of working. Under the parameters you've set, I cannot answer, because if I wanted to create such a bounded show, I would want to include skilful elements.

Is this purely hypothetical, or is the actual question, "I want to knock together a quick show with as little practice as possible, and I have enough money for three dvds; which ones should I pick?"

If it's hypothetical and I can disregard any restrictions on skill, practice, etc, then hypothetically I could build a show from (names obscured since we're in Penny):
- N0th1ng by Max Mav3n
- P5ych0k1net1c S1lv3rwar3 by G3rry and Banach3k
- M1nd 5tunt5 vol 2 by Patr1k Kuff5

But I say that from the perspective of already having crafted shows the long way around, with the experience of knowing what can work with what. I daresay anyone who thinks differently to me will disagree with some of what I've said, but in my head, I can see certain bits and pieces going together from these three (admittedly entry-level) volumes to make a skeleton.

PS. "Entry-level" means very little. Even very simple things in the right hands can make miracles. I remember someone on this board asking how to devise a marking system for photographs so they could do a Derren Brown "Guess Whom" routine. I laughed long and loud that Derren could so skilfully handle an "entry-level" concept, that it would make someone chase down some mythical advanced methodology.


Id love for you to tell Mark Spelmann that his PVP effect is "Entry-Level" What I mean by easy to do. Is. If you know how it works, There is no real slight of hand, memorization. Easy to set up, Easy to do. There is only really 1 real move (Flipping the envelope) that allows the effect to work. So you can spend your energy focusing on presentation. This is for a challenge between friends. This thread has nothing to do with Me being a beginner (Which I'm not) trying to just buy a couple dvds with my weekly allowance so I can be a super duper cool magician mind freak. The way people automatically assume that people are **** performers off the bat is quite annoying. Iv been a member of the castle for 14 years, performed for many venues and places, celebrities, and high-paying gigs all over the place. SO please. Leave any hypothetical condescending advice at the door. Thank you.
Head Case
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But besides that. Thank you for the DVD recommendations. Maybe I worded it wrong. There is a Specific Niche of effects that I am looking for. That's all it really boils down to. Im hopping I might be able to stumble across those effects after reading some of the examples or ideas from others. No need to blow it out of proportion.
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