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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Issues with suggestion (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Aster D. Grey
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Hey guys, I've just recently started with mentalism and I'm having huge problems with utilising suggestion. Without getting into too much detail, I've tried multiple methods for "suggesting" a playing card (such as Derren Brown's 3 of Diamonds) and so far it worked out a total of zero times. I've tried it many many times with many different people, and I usually have another effect as an out, but it's getting really annoying at this point.

So I'm asking you guys for help. What can I do to increase my success rate? What are some things I can read/watch that will help me with this?

- Grey

PS: this is my first ever post here. Really sorry if I said anything I shouldn't have.
Rainbows and unicorns,

Grey
Gumar Oz DuBar
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I'd love to help, but when it comes to offering advice on specific material, works, or references, I tend to think that should be a downstairs topic, some may disagree.

But as not to leave you with nothing, I'll give an answer. Perhaps Kenton Knepper's works may be of interest.

Sorry I'm not of more help now. There are several great ways of "suggesting" a playing card, when you get to downstairs, I'd be happy to share specific literature that would be of more benefit.

Good luck


Gumar-Oz-Dubar
I write and edit text.
mastermindreader
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You should really take some time to read and master the fundamentals of the art before you move into advanced areas like suggestion in which you'll often need to fall back on other techniques.

You might want to read the (free) 39 Steps to Mentalism linked to in my signature below.

Good thoughts,

Bob

PS- As I just asked another new member, why not take a moment to introduce yourself to the members here and tell us a bit about your experience in magic/mentalism and the types of shows you do. Are you planning on going into mentalism exclusively, or are you just looking to add some mental effects to a magic act?
Gordon the discombobulator
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The explanations that Derren gives are not always the real methods he uses.
He may well use subliminal suggestions but he also uses many other methods that you don't see. (e.g. pre-show, hypnosis, dual realities, etc.)

There are many other ways to force a card and lots of pseudo-mindreading effects around.
I say stick with a traditional card force but dress it up as NLP, and psychobabble rather than trying to fully emulate the effects in the exact manner that Derren is performing them. It is always better to present effects in YOUR style rather than try to copy someone else.

I did have had some success with his 'high up card' and 'thinKING' of a card suggestions, but then just as many failures so I don't use that anymore.
Aster D. Grey
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2014, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote:
There are several great ways of "suggesting" a playing card, when you get to downstairs, I'd be happy to share specific literature that would be of more benefit.


Hey, I'm not really in the know, would you mind telling me how does one get into the downstairs?


Quote:
On Apr 20, 2014, Gordon the discombobulator wrote:
The explanations that Derren gives are not always the real methods he uses.


This came from his book "Pure Effect" not from a performance of his.

Quote:
On Apr 20, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
You should really take some time to read and master the fundamentals of the art before you move into advanced areas like suggestion in which you'll often need to fall back on other techniques.

You might want to read the (free) 39 Steps to Mentalism linked to in my signature below.

Good thoughts,

Bob

PS- As I just asked another new member, why not take a moment to introduce yourself to the members here and tell us a bit about your experience in magic/mentalism and the types of shows you do. Are you planning on going into mentalism exclusively, or are you just looking to add some mental effects to a magic act?



Wow, this is the first time I've ever felt star struck. Bob, I started with your book (Fundamentals) and it's one of the reasons I'm now in love with mentalism. Currently going through the Art of Mentalism and I have seen your Penguin Live Lecture. So yeah, crazy respect.

As for me, I'm just a kid from Bosnia, currently studying in Vienna, who recently fell in love with mentalism. I started out with card magic (almost exclusively) a while back. I'd rate myself as a medium level card manipulator. At one point I saw some of the mentalists on Penn and Teller: Fool Us (Colin McLeod comes to mind), and realized this is by far the most interesting type of magic for me.

So I started where everybody does: Corinda. However, it was a pretty dry read for me, because I was so new to magic and mentalism that I had no idea what to look for in that book. So I found Fundamentals, and then I watched a few amazing Penguin Live lectures (Cassidy, Osterlind, Redford, Spellman and Quinn). Now I'd say I have a pretty good understanding of some (very) basic principles a few effects that work quite well for a beginner, and I'm going back to Corinda.

All of the performing I do comes down to showing stuff to friends in pubs (and the waitresses too, who am I to refuse a free drink?) and I want to exclusively perform mentalism in the future. Hopefully do some stuff at an open mike some time soon.

I'm trying to design a show (not a long one) that would revolve around astronomy, because, well, I love science, and I want to make a compelling story to go with it.

Kindest regards,

Grey
Rainbows and unicorns,

Grey
Matt Chalk
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To get to downstairs, you need to have 50 posts on the Café Smile
insight
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Hello Aster,

Have you seen the Cassidy Penguin Lecture? Once you listen, you will have ways to suggest in a sure-fire manner---in addition to solid routines, interesting theoretical observations and straight-shooting practical advice. That lecture alone has a tremendous amount of professional insights.

If you already have seen that lecture, I suggest seeing it again. A lot of insights that may have been missed!

Regards,
Mike





Quote:
On Apr 20, 2014, Aster D. Grey wrote:
Hey guys, I've just recently started with mentalism and I'm having huge problems with utilising suggestion. Without getting into too much detail, I've tried multiple methods for "suggesting" a playing card (such as Derren Brown's 3 of Diamonds) and so far it worked out a total of zero times. I've tried it many many times with many different people, and I usually have another effect as an out, but it's getting really annoying at this point.

So I'm asking you guys for help. What can I do to increase my success rate? What are some things I can read/watch that will help me with this?

- Grey

PS: this is my first ever post here. Really sorry if I said anything I shouldn't have.
Bill Cushman
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Say that one more time Matt!
Matt Chalk
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You can go downstairs when you reach 50 posts. Wait a minute!!! Smile
Aster D. Grey
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2014, insight wrote:
Hello Aster,

Have you seen the Cassidy Penguin Lecture? Once you listen, you will have ways to suggest in a sure-fire manner---in addition to solid routines, interesting theoretical observations and straight-shooting practical advice. That lecture alone has a tremendous amount of professional insights.

If you already have seen that lecture, I suggest seeing it again. A lot of insights that may have been missed!

Regards,
Mike


Yeah, I've seen it, but I will make sure to watch it again. Can you maybe tell me what to look out for? I already do know of some sure-fire methods of non-psychological card "suggestions", but I just find these really interesting.

Thanks for your time!

Grey
Rainbows and unicorns,

Grey
Amirá
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You already started with a negative suggestion for yourself.

A good suggestion (pun intended)...slowly go thru your way to 50 posts and go to a no-googleable subforum called "Inner Thoughts", in there we can discuss more profound themes and try to help you in a better way.

Best
Pablo
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Mentalism Center: The best online space to get quality Mentalism
www.mentalismcenter.com

Arkanosophy: The Boutique for Mystery Performers
www.arkanosophy.com
Neb
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If you are new to mentalism you definitely need to learn all the basics and read Corinda, Annemann, Cassidy and and many of the other titles on Bobs list.

Once you feel more confident in the basic and more reliable methods you should then check out Pete Turners work and also Cog by Ben Seward if you are interested in psychological forcing and genuine thought reading. And of course the incredible work of Kenton Knepper as Gumar suggested.

Good luck and enjoy!
MrThomas
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When your participant does not listen and is unfocused, suggesting something might be impossible. How is your rapport to your participant when you experiment with "suggestions"? The framing of that situation to your audience is important as well. The participant needs to understand, what is going to happen. Kepp on refining!

-hans
John C
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Quote:
On Apr 21, 2014, hansma wrote:
When your participant does not listen and is unfocused, suggesting something might be impossible. How is your rapport to your participant when you experiment with "suggestions"? The framing of that situation to your audience is important as well. The participant needs to understand, what is going to happen. Kepp on refining!

-hans


I don't think he's there yet. He will be. Sounds encouraged.
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Aster D. Grey
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Thanks for the kind replies everybody, I'll get back to it once I feel fully comfortable with the basics.
Rainbows and unicorns,

Grey
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