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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Tricks to do with a Raven (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Justanotheramateur
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Just like my name says: I'm just another amateur. I'm going to buy a Raven (the first edition, so not the x2) but I don't know what I can do with it, besides making coins disappear. Does someone know some awesome effects to do with the Raven? And do you want to explain them to me? I would like to receive a private message from you.
Thank you very much,

Joost
inigmntoya
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Let's turn the question around.... why are you going to buy one if you don't know what you can do with it?
J-Mac
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It would be much better for you to learn basic coin handling techniques before playing around with a Raven.

Jim
Justanotheramateur
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I already can make coins vanish without a Raven, but I just think vanishes look much cleaner with a Raven. For me, it's worth the money to vanish or change coins really smoothly. I'm going to buy the Raven, that's a fact. But I was just wondering what else. I can do with it.
(I'm sorry for my crappy English)
Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On May 5, 2014, Justanotheramateur wrote:
I already can make coins vanish without a Raven, but I just think vanishes look much cleaner with a Raven. For me, it's worth the money to vanish or change coins really smoothly. I'm going to buy the Raven, that's a fact. But I was just wondering what else. I can do with it.
(I'm sorry for my crappy English)


Inigmntoya and J-Mac both make excellent points.

It really doesn't do much more that the trailer shows, vanish anything m******c or s*****d. You would be far better to spend 10 bucks on Modern Coin Magic (BOBO) than to spend 20 or more for something you have to always have set up inside your clothes and have "special" coins with you at all times. With BOBO and some practice, you will be way more amazing and you can be amazing without special clothes and you will be able to do things with BORROWED coins.

So, which sounds better to you?
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Dentian
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You can perform a shrinking nickel effect that comes with the raven (at least it came with mine) where you make a nickel turn really really tiny by waving your hand over with it. You can also do some nice color changes of the coin inside spectator's hands (nickel to penny, or penny to dime). But I haven't used the raven for about 4 years now. Its not the most 'practical' item. I've also used the M5 before, although it is much bigger, it allows for a greater variety of effects. Although I still would agree with some of the more experienced individuals that have already posted in this thread since you are an "amateur" as you've stated. Its better to start off in sleight of hand vanishes/color changes. There are ways to achieve clean vanishes with sleight of hand with proper direction/misdirection of attention.
Justanotheramateur
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Yeah, maybe amateur wasn't the right word. It's my hobby, and my sleight of hand are already fine. But I just want to look cleaner, and I'm not afraid to spend money. However I don't want to spend a lot. It has to be nice. (I don't have that much to spend, I'm 14)
Justanotheramateur
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Quote:
On May 5, 2014, Poof-Daddy wrote:
Quote:
On May 5, 2014, Justanotheramateur wrote:
I already can make coins vanish without a Raven, but I just think vanishes look much cleaner with a Raven. For me, it's worth the money to vanish or change coins really smoothly. I'm going to buy the Raven, that's a fact. But I was just wondering what else. I can do with it.
(I'm sorry for my crappy English)


Inigmntoya and J-Mac both make excellent points.

It really doesn't do much more that the trailer shows, vanish anything m******c or s*****d. You would be far better to spend 10 bucks on Modern Coin Magic (BOBO) than to spend 20 or more for something you have to always have set up inside your clothes and have "special" coins with you at all times. With BOBO and some practice, you will be way more amazing and you can be amazing without special clothes and you will be able to do things with BORROWED coins.

So, which sounds better to you?


Yeah my sleight of hand are pretty good. I don't want to hide the truth: I'm a gadget freak. I just have to buy the Raven, because there are some great effects with it (everybody has his own opinion, and this is mine). So my question is not IF I should buy it, but WHAT I should do with it.

(Thanks for your response by the way)
tomsk192
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Well, given that is a m*gn*t*c pull, the options are fairly wide open.

Vanishes; changes; transpositions. If you shim any sleevable object you are in business. Much more fun, and appropriate, to work out the details for yourself.
Justanotheramateur
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Quote:
On May 5, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
Well, given that is a m*gn*t*c pull, the options are fairly wide open.

Vanishes; changes; transpositions. If you shim any sleevable object you are in business. Much more fun, and appropriate, to work out the details for yourself.


Yeah, there are so many options! I'll play with it for a while, and let my creativity do the work Smile
pepka
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The Raven is a fun toy to play with. One of the first gadgets I bought when getting into magic. 20 years later, and now a pro...it sits buried in a drawer. Food for thought.
Justanotheramateur
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On May 6, 2014, pepka wrote:
The Raven is a fun toy to play with. One of the first gadgets I bought when getting into magic. 20 years later, and now a pro...it sits buried in a drawer. Food for thought.


Keep in mind that I'm not a pro Smile. I don't perform stage acts or something like that. I just want to fool friends and people on the street with it. And yeah, I can fool people with sleight of hand, but (especially for people who know me and my tricks) the raven is even harder to understand, because I don't have to do anything fishy (from the spectators perspective)
Magician Shaun
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Over a Raven I would recommend either a Topit or TKO to make your magic cleaner. The reason I say this is that with these utility devices you can use do so much more. You are required to choreograph your routines and movements a little bit more so than with the Raven but for the Raven to look really good you must choreograph your moves with it as well.

I suggest the Topit or TKO because you will get a ton more utility out of it and will likely use it for much longer. If you want something like the Raven then I would suggest you buy the book Jack Miller's Holdout Miracles by Ed Mitchel. (I think that is right). It will cost you about $10 for the book and about $5 or less making the Holdout.

I think if you are comfortable with a solid amount of sleight of hand these type of utility devices are a valuable tool and very versatile. These devices can be used with coins, cards, and more.

If you go with the Topit I would like recommend the Michael Ammar Topit Book Available on iTunes (I think), the Bob Fitch Topit Workshop 3 DVD set, and finally the Peter Pitchford topit and 'Static Hand Topiting' teaching DVD. The Pitchford Topit and DVD are $30 and Peter Pitchford is a cool guy. His topit is similar to the Ammar version with a couple of slight improvements. You will get the Topit pre-made and a great teaching DVD. All in all you will spend about $160 to get the 3 main works on the topit and a topit. You will have to sew it into a jacket yourself (or you could do a Google search for Topit installation and find a few magician's who offer this service).

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me and I will do my best to answer all of your questions. I hope this helps!
J-Mac
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Shaun, forget it... He wants a Raven.

With a Raven you can vanish small magnetic objects. Not much else AFAIK. A Raven DVD is usually sold wherever The Raven is sold. Try that for more ideas.

Jim
Magician Shaun
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The biggest downside to a Raven is a lack of an easy retrieval method. Once the Raven takes it away it doesn't come back.
J-Mac
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On May 6, 2014, Magician Shaun wrote:
The biggest downside to a Raven is a lack of an easy retrieval method. Once the Raven takes it away it doesn't come back.


I agree... But look up a few posts above: OP claims to already be proficient at sleight of hand but thinks the Raven would be neat! Oh - and he's 14. So methinks we speak for naught. Smile

Jim
pepka
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Quote:
On May 6, 2014, Justanotheramateur wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2014, pepka wrote:
The Raven is a fun toy to play with. One of the first gadgets I bought when getting into magic. 20 years later, and now a pro...it sits buried in a drawer. Food for thought.


Keep in mind that I'm not a pro Smile. I don't perform stage acts or something like that. I just want to fool friends and people on the street with it. And yeah, I can fool people with sleight of hand, but (especially for people who know me and my tricks) the raven is even harder to understand, because I don't have to do anything fishy (from the spectators perspective)


It sounds like you sure think you know what's going on. A toy like a Raven is never a substitute for good sleight of hand, subtlety, and some psychology....especially if you are a casual performer. Keep in mind, if you are just performing casually for friends, they will think it odd that you can't immediately duplicate the effect with THEIR coin. I'm not saying that a pro would never use such a thing. I just know that it's just not my style because it's limitations far outweigh it's usefulness. It sounds like you really want it, and there is nothing wrong with that. Buy it, have fun.
Craig Ousterling
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@Justanotheramateur - David Copperfield spent a LOT of money to do ONE trick... make the Statue of Liberty vanish. I don't think he would have settled for any other method or some other trick like vanishing a miniature version. Smile

The ONE trick the raven does that makes it worth the many many many hours of practice is vanishing a coin from a spectators palm up open hand leaving their hand EMPTY. As far as I know... there is no way to accomplish that feat with sleight of hand.

Some of the BEST magic you'll see is done from an elaborate setup for ONE trick that no one else will go through the trouble of doing.
pepka
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Craig has a point, but that is for a professional when we can very often control all the variables. When we vanish the coin, where the audience is seated, going on to another trick, etc. An amateur who does this for a friend may amaze them and then be asked to do it again another time, when they don't have the Raven on them. A good retention vanish and ditch can be done any time.
tomsk192
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Craig does make a good point; and as I pointed out above, any shimmed, sleevable object would work, though, not just a coin. But yes, not an impromptu tool, really.
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