I should have been clearer that the above comment was in direct response to Stuart's point, and wasn't meant to sound like I was suggesting this is what you did Gary. Sorry for that!

- Mike

Gary makes some valid points, most of which I have advocated in the past. People will pay more for something if they know the value, and if all they have at the start is a price they may eliminate you before they even know the value of your show.

Nevertheless, I post rates for my cheapest shows (birthday parties). Most of the people who call for these are ready to book, and frankly I don't want to take the time to "sell" those shows. In fact (as others have said before) more and more shows are now booked via email or text. If they know the rates this makes it easier and faster. My BD shows are pretty much on auto-pilot, and I think that posting rates are part of the reason.

My higher priced show rates are not posted since I feel they need some explaining and salesmanship.

Here's another thread on the subject.

-> Pro's & con's of advertising your price

BTW, if you follow the link that I've provided, and the one that Ken Northridge provided earlier (and the links off of that other thread), you'll find numerous posts where I explain why I've had my birthday show rates online since 2007, and why I feel that works fine for me (including how I had tracked inquiries vs. actual bookings, when I didn't have my rates online). Like others have said, do what you feel works best for you.

For example, I said this in one of my other posts at one time:



- Donald

P.S. Just yesterday, I booked a Gold Package Birthday Party Show (my top end package). The customer called me after reading the information on my website, so he knew what what I was offering and my price. This was a new customer, who hadn't seen my show before. Sometimes they are new customers, and sometimes they are repeat customers or spin-off customers (people who've seen me at another show).

Josh,

I'm impressed by your thorough test of conversion rates, although there is a couple flaws in this test that make any deductions misleading.

Measuring conversions is much less meaningful than measuring the average net income from all shows booked off posted prices versus unposted prices. You could convert less shows when attempting to upsell clients over the phone, but ultimately make much more money doing less shows at a premium rate. That has always been my findings, but I've been in sales for over 25 years.

Regardless, either test is still flawed because the results will be directly impacted by the quality and content of the information provided on the web site, the perceived value of the price packages offered, and the sales skills of the magician.

So while the data should be meaningful for you to personally make well informed decisions regarding what works best for yourself, nobody else should draw conclusions from your findings.

And even you should be careful about the deductions you make. Improving the content on your web site, changing your current pricing scheme, or working on your sales pitch could all directly alter your results.

In the end, it all comes back to the one point that everyone seems to agree with, which is that we should all stick with what works best for us as long as we are content with the results. In other words, this whole discussion/debate was meaningless! Lol

- Gary

BTW, I disagree with the strategy of quoting one price on the phone, and then giving an instant discount during the same conversation to every single prospect ("for making a decision on the spot", or "because they saw your show that same day", etc.) I think that does not give the impression that your show is worth the higher value... I think that it gives the impression that you aren't confident in your prices. And it puts too much focus on the prices. Just my opinion.

BTW, I think there is a time and a place for offering discounts, etc.

- Donald

Guys, I just wanted to post "THANK YOU" to everyone. We do not follow the same standards. Did you know we all get more gigs that way? If we followed the same procedure, we would become boring to prospects. They would end up calling other type of entertainers to their kids' parties. Everyone stay strong and keep disagreeing with others. That is how we stay in business.

There is a huge difference between top down selling and discounting. I don't discount unless I have a very good reason. Otherwise, I charge the exact same rate to everyone that books a specific package from me.

I agree that discounting lowers your perceived value. In contrast, by initially ONLY presenting your highest package that would be ideal for each specific client based on their needs, you immediately establish your value as being top notch. If you then agree to scale back some on the services offered to better align with their budget, it forces the prospective buyer to decide whether they want to make sacrifices for a lower price. If a prospective customer is presented all options at once side by side on a web site, most people will try to sell themselves on the lower price since that's human nature. But if they have no choice but to speak with you for rates and you're good at articulating your value, then it gives you a substantially better opportunity to sell them on the highest package. Why do you think car salesman always have you first sit in the premium car that is loaded with every conceivable option?

Now if there is only a one to two hundred dollar difference between your lowest package and your highest package, then of course it makes sense to present all options together because your time is probably worth more than the potential upsell revenue. In this case, people debating their options don't have as difficult a decision to make so you're likely to sell more high end packages regardless.

In addition to my magic, I offer DJ services with music, games, contests, prizes, dancing, party favors, lights, bubbles, and a 2nd sound system. My lowest package is over $2000 less than my highest package. It would be absurd for me to present all my packages side by side when my close ratio on my higher packages is over 80% by phone and most my clients book me 2-3 years out. Over the past 32 years, I've established myself as a premium DJ/Magician in a very affluent Jewish market where I specialize in doing bar/batmitzvah's (ages 9-14). All my clients frankly try to out-do their neighbors.

There is really nothing to debate here because we are comparing apples to oranges. Or as Mike points out, we are all different. I may very well be the only person in this Café that does what I do. But in the same respect, I'm sure many of you can say the exact same thing about your stage persona and branded value. We all have things that set us apart. If you can sell yourself well on those strengths, no web site, price menu or printed brochure is going to do you justice. But that's okay if the trade off is getting to spend more time with family and friends.

- Gary

Yes, I agree that discounting is different from top down selling. (And negotiating / the salami technique is a different topic again... not my style. For those wanting to learn more about negotiating / the salami technique, seek out Michael Ammar's CD, "Negotiating Higher Performance Fees".)

Speaking from personal experience on the topic of which order to sell, and in relation to the topic of birthday show prices on your website... I tested putting top down, and bottom up, when listing the show packages. I tested it for several months each way. I made more sales when I sold bottom up.

I've also experienced similar results when selling other types of shows in sales letters, and also when selling other shows on the phone (other markets). From now on, I'll always sell bottom up.

I've seen lots of salesmen and sales courses promote the top down approach, but it didn't work as well for me.

I still have customers go for the top end shows, but I'll tell them about the lower end shows first. For example, my last 5 school show bookings went for my top end package, but that wasn't the first package I told them about.

Again, what works for me might not work for others. And also, I did my own personal testing... I didn't just follow someone else's advice without putting thought into my actions.

- Donald

Donald, do you have a lot of competition in your area?

Dynamike -

Yes, there are lots of magicians and other performers in my area. My main performing area is Victoria, and Vancouver Island (up-island from Victoria), and the Lower Mainland (Vancouver and area)... all parts of British Columbia, Canada.

Why do you ask?

- Donald

I love reading Donald's posts! He always gives his opinions and then backs them up with reason. Donald offers up a nice balance to the energy and enthusiasm of the "emotional" posters.

Gary, I don't think this was all meaningless at all. I was once a die-hard supporter of the "never post your prices" school, but as I said earlier, I partially converted to the other side. I think discussions like this help to open minds to new ideas (at least to those who are open to new ideas). For example, Mike posted he is going to give it a try; I suspect he is far from sold on it, but he's keeping an open mind. That is the value of these discussions.

I so agree with Starrpower and previous posters. It's all about trying new ideas and seeing if it works for you. We are all different, we all have different aims and objectives and we all have our own idea about in which direction we want to take our businesses. I was the original poster and reading through this thread has opened my eyes to new and different ways of presenting my magic show business. I've taken some points FOR putting my prices online and I've also taken some points AGAINST putting them online. As a result I've decided to give it a try to see if it works for me and if it doesn't then at least I'll know!
I really appreciate the time, effort and thought that has gone into ALL the previous posts and it's good to know there are so many like minded people out there who are willing to help others. Thanks guys!

Jon

One of the things I'm testing just now, in regards to my birthday shows, is offering a discount if they have their show on a weekday (instead of the weekend). The information about the discount (& conditions) is right there on my website, by the show options and rates, for customers to read.

I read the idea of offering weekday birthday show discounts on a Café thread, and thought it was worth testing.

- Donald

I thought about the same thing before, Donald. The only problem is I never did it yet. When I put my pieces together I will put it on my website. Thanks for reminding me.

I don't put my prices on my site because there are too many variables (travel, weekend vs weekday, size of audience, different shows & add ons). Considering that I only take the shows that I feel I would do a stellar job at, I want to be able to weed out the room full of two year olds, or the drunken barn dances. They just aren't my style. Also since I can't take every show that comes my way, by talking on the phone to the prospect it's a chance for us to both see if we like the initial impression that the other gives.

Joey D