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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Both hands empty (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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alexanderN
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the Netherlands
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Where can I find a good technique to show both hands "empty" after a coin vanish?(except the raven)
Thanks already.
Jonathan Townsend
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Ossining, NY
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Let's start with the generalities one can write in this public side of the forum...

Are you sitting? Look down.
Are you standing? Look in your jacket and at your wrists.
Are you wearing a dress shirt? Look at where your pen might go.
Lots of details in Bobo's Modern Coin Magic!!!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
thehawk
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You could lap it or ditch it in a pocket or sleeve if you were standing.
Keith Yeung
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You will have to learn the Tenkai Pinch or Backpalm if you don't want to ditch the coin... and show the palms of your hand

You can also use the Back Thumb Palm if your left side is towards the audience
Dan Watkins
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There are only two methods.

1. You really are concealing the coin in your hand.

2. You really don't have the coin.

Method 1 uses techniques such as:

Moving a coin from concealment to concealment. for example: Back clips, transitioned to classic palm, finger palm, back thumb palm to front thumb palm, etc. Constantly moving the coin around so that it is not seen. You need to learn the different grips, clips, palms, and how to transition between them.

You use inside the hand palms and clips to show the back sides of your hands (classic palm, finger palm, thumb palm, etc.)

You use back clips and palms to show the palm of your hands (back clips with various fingers, back palm, back thumb palm, etc.)

You can use more obscure grips like the J.W. Grip, Mutobe palm, etc. to show side shots of your hands empty, while concealing a coin on the other.

You can also use aquitments which are hand washing motions that slide a coin around concealing it at all time.

You can also use loads and steals to load a coin into your other hand, or steal a coin from a hand in order to show the empty hand clean. For example, the right hand is shown empty, secretly steals a coin from the left, the left hand is shown empty.

Subtleties can be used to show parts of your hand empty such as the Ramsay subtlety while holding a coin in finger palm and Kaps/Malini subtlety when holding a coin in classic palm.

The pros of using method 1 is that you don’t need anything extra besides your coin and your hand. The con is, that it can start to look convoluted. When people show their hands empty for real, they don’t have to curl, tighten, rotate, close into a fist and then open, slide, etc. They just show both sides of the hands clean with open fingers.

An example of a way to string together concealments is this video.

Method 2 is to really get rid of a coin.

This is done by secretly ditching a coin somewhere.

This can be as simple as, if you are sitting down, you drop the coin in your lap (lapping). Or put a coin in your pocket when people aren’t looking, but pretend you still have it.

If you have two close up mats you can use the matting techniques taught by Dr. Michael Rubinstein. You can have a servante installed on your close up pad to ditch coins in.

If you don’t wear a jacket you can use your trouser pockets, your shirt pocket if you have one, you can slip coins between buttons in a button down shirt, you can deposit coins on the back of your neck.

If you wear a jacket you have additional jacket pockets to ditch to. There are methods taught to secretly ditch to side pockets, to the breast pocket. You can have topits installed, and ditch the coins into your topit. You can sleeve the coin (throw it up your sleeve). You can have sleeve pockets installed so that coins do not slide back down out of your sleeve right away. You can use a holdout which is a device that takes and delivers objects from your hands. You can use a pull which is what the Raven is – it takes items from your hand.

The pro about really ditching a coin is that your hands are really empty – you can show them really empty. The con is that it takes something extra besides your hand and a coin. You need a place to ditch, whether simple or complex.
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Curtis Kam
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same as you, plus 3 and enough to make
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Frame the moment differently. Before they suspect that your hands aren't both empty, cause them to suspect that the coin has reappeared elsewhere, or that you have already ditched it into one of the aforementioned places.

If you're looking for a way to show your hands empty in spite of their being otherwise, you're seeking an "acquitment". Good ones exist, Ammar's "wiped clean", and Kainoa Harbottle's variations on that theme come to mind, and I find Bob Kohler's display (see John Bannon's "Impossibilia" or "Smoke and Mirrors" I forget which) quite useful. The Vernon and Ramsay acquitments are good casual shows, and the Paul Wilson changeover (and again, Kainoa's variations) is quite good in the right context.

Keep in mind that an acquitment will rarely convince the audience if they truly suspect a hidden coin. One can be convincing if the audience believes that you've already pitched, ditched or somehow gotten rid of the coin secretly.

Good Luck
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
alexanderN
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Thanks guys for this useful information!
Greg Rostami
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Hi alexanderN,

Here are some videos that show some of the things that Dan Watkins was talking about. Many of the guys at the Magic Café have already seen these, so I didn't know if you had seen them or not.

http://www.infinite-image.net/gone/

just click on any one of these files and they should start playing in WMP.

enjoy,
Greg

P.S. I'm working on some NEW videos for the Magic Café . . . some new exciting vanishes, and a CARD Trick !! . . . so stay tuned !!
Smile
Chris Berry
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Quote:
On 2004-01-13 15:44, thehawk wrote:
You could lap it or ditch it in a pocket or sleeve if you were standing.



How do you lap it while standing? Smile


Chris
Jonathan Townsend
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Ossining, NY
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* that's been done. Friends in the lunchroom use to let me do that. However, retrievals had to be done three handed. No groping please. Smile

Folks are sure offering AlexanderN a lot to think about. It does help to start somewhere with a book and start with the basics.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
iMagic
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If you have good aim, I suppose you could cuff it Smile
alexanderN
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For example David Roth Expert coin magic, after Bobo, JonTown? By the way, very nice videos Grostami! (which magician inspired you?) Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Lots to learn in Bobo's. After a solid functional ability to do the basics...

Then CoinMagic, Expert Coin Magic, and ... from the other side of the street: The Ramsay Legend by Andrew Galloway. Which is not so much move/routine learning as an exercise in finding the moments that make the moves invisible and the procedures flow.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MAGICTOM
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Dallas, Tx
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Very nice videos Greg, it seems that you like the top p****t vanish as much as I do, have you checked out david stones videos at all?
Tom
No Man is his craft's master the first day!
J.B. Bobo
Dr.Fate
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Sweet videos Greg...And Tom,David Stones videos are
very nice.His Michael Ammars wiped clean is sooooo
smooth.His hands seem so lite.


Juan.
KirkG
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Kind of an aside, does anyone think Dan revealed too much on a public side of the forum? I am not trying to slam him, just getting an understanding of the boundries. He always gives excellant information, and I have often wanted to contribute, but felt I would be exposing too much to the general masses.

I wouldn't want to get banned.

Kirk
Jason Bay
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It should be noted that you don't actually have to *show* your hand to be empty, you only need to *convince your audience* that your hand is empty. See the difference?

This can be done through good acting, sometimes in addition to extra grips or moves that help to convince (such as the Kaps subtlety, or flipping a coin into the air and catching it with the same hand that holds a second coin hidden in classic palm).

If you act naturally, and especially if you are doing something else that will draw attention away from the "hot" hand, you never need to blatantly show that your hand is empty. Strive to routine your performance in such a way that the audience's attention always flows away from the places and things that you don't want them to be thinking about.
Dan Watkins
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Kirk,

I looked over my post again to make sure I wasn't exposing anything (I am pretty vehement about that type of thing).

I don't think I crossed any lines.

I basically said to show two hands empty, they either have to really be empty, or you have to conceal a coin.

I did mention a bunch of clips and palms and aquitments, etc, but saying the names of these is very different from knowing how to use them. I did not in detail explain the moves. People who don't know what is a back clip or a Kaps/Malini subtlety is, is going to have to do some homework.

In the ditching half of my lengthy post -

I don't think saying you can put coins in a pocket is too revealing to anyone.

The more obscure stuff like topits and holdouts and pulls, etc. have entire lengthy threads in this very forum devoted to them. Many very detailed.

I tried to provide a pretty exhaustive outline as to what someone can use to show their hands empty. To actually learn the techniques and use the stuff I wrote about, one must do some serious homework and practice.

I think everyone at one point in time contemplates how to really vanish a coin given certain constraints. My post only serves to point people toward solutions, it is their job to investigate them to see if they are worthwhile.
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KirkG
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Dan,

OK, I see your point. Now see if you can see mine.

Re reading your post, you inform people of the multitude of ways to conceal coins in back and front of your hands. You don't say "use the Mutobe palm" you say "Mutobe palm, etc. to show side shots of your hands empty, while concealing a coin on the other."

You talk about a servante and then explain it is something to ditch into. A magician, shouldn't need that explanation, or if they did, could be pointed to page XX of Bobo's to look it up. That resouce wouldn't be available to the casual observer.

You speak of moving the coin around to show different sides and then speak of the revolving pattern that is required.

You talk about sleeving, topits, ditching, stealing, holdouts, etc. It is not only that you mentioned the items, but in many cases you defined them and gave descriptions of the actions or technique.

All I am saying is that, shouldn't this have been more camouflaged in this open forum? Or brought to a closed password protected area? Again, this isn't meant in anyway as a slam, just brought up for your consideration.

Apparently, no one else is as concerned as they have't commented on it, so the point is probably moot. I appreciate all your knowledge and help, I just like to keep a tighter lid so it is passed to those who are really interested and deserving.

Kirk Grodske
cperkins
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Excellent post by both Dan and Curtis. Dan, you have a great sense or organization to it all (encyclopedic knowledge)...to really explain all you mention would take a chapter or two...not too much revelation at all...hardley think the multitudes now know how to do and apply a JW grip? (great way to initially produce in a one coin flurry for a kind of strong beginning)...Nah!
cp
( I'm pushing toward 50 posts!!!!
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe)
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