The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Advice on mind palace (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
dd123
View Profile
New user
55 Posts

Profile of dd123
Not sure if this is the right forum to be posting this on but I'm sure I will be pointed in the right direction if not.
I have recently been reading up on mind palaces, and have been using them initially to learn long lists such as Shakespeare's plays, Dicken's books etc. However, the more lists I try to learn, the harder I find it to reuse each route. I think that having large amounts of different routes would make it more difficult to recall the information. So I was hoping for some insight into this from those of you who may use such techniques, and for some practical suggestions to enable me to take this further as currently I feel as though I am at a standstill.

Thanks, Duncan.
Harry the magic man
View Profile
Loyal user
Spokane, Washington
270 Posts

Profile of Harry the magic man
If you repeatedly go through a route a few times right after you create it then, for me, it seems to stick almost permanently. I use a method of I suppose filing cabinets but in like fountains and other objects. What method do you use for inserting the information into the location?
Best wishes,
Harry
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long- T.S. Eliot "The Hollow Men"
dd123
View Profile
New user
55 Posts

Profile of dd123
Hi Harry. I use a route familiar to me, with various waypoints along the way, along with some transportation for part of the route. At each waypoint I have a vivid action or character, or combination of both to remember the the item. So I don't have an issue remembering the route per se, rather remembering which piece of information I should be recalling when I reach each waypoint when I have used it for three or more lists. Hopefully that makes sense??!
Harry the magic man
View Profile
Loyal user
Spokane, Washington
270 Posts

Profile of Harry the magic man
So remembering what action or word goes where?
Best wishes,
Harry
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long- T.S. Eliot "The Hollow Men"
Tom Jorgenson
View Profile
Inner circle
LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA
4452 Posts

Profile of Tom Jorgenson
I don't know if this would apply to your particular technique, but in Silva Mind control, they taught us to color an initial door for each unique 'list', and beyond that, the 'route' is the same, but each route is clean with only the actions/scenes you have in place for that particular use.

I would suppose you'd have an initial hallway with colored doors?

Somehow, that allowed you to seperate the lists from each other and keep them apart. The back-brain does it automatically once you set it up.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
seamagu
View Profile
Special user
859 Posts

Profile of seamagu
I use the major system which is a bit different and is kind of numbers based. I found an old system developed by the major himself which allows for potentially infinite storage. His books are free on Google books and have some great theory. You still need to maintain your memory palaces though by running through the information every so often


Check out mnemotechnics.org for memory specific forums
I love post its Smile
C.J.
View Profile
Inner circle
There's a lotta rambling in my
2367 Posts

Profile of C.J.
I have always struggled with the memory palace technique, because everything I read recommended using my house, or my bedroom, or my route to work. But these are all things I have taken for granted for a decade, so my mental images of them were surprisingly vague. I could never find enough pegs to get them to work.

But at the start of this year, I learned the countries of Africa in alphabetical order with a new mind palace. Now, I totally understand that this will sound ridiculous to some people, but since computer games are my predominant free-time activity, I realised that one of the most detailed games I've played provided hundreds (thousands?) of possible scenes and locations that I could use. So for those of you out there who are familiar with Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, the African countries now sit around the apartment and attached atrium on Citadel Station.

Because of the scale of this particular game, I can quite easily store a huge number of lists in this context before I will ever need to re-use a route. The African countries only took up two-and-a-bit rooms.

I learned a lot by committing to make the memory palace work this time around. The most surprising was the couple of times when I reached a point where I said "I need to put more in this room, but there's nothing to peg to", at which point I was able to just throw a couple of paintings onto the wall, stick three chairs in a row in the middle of the room (the middle one of which I never even used, but it's still there in my mind, which is soooo weird!), and I put a container in a corner from which I can draw Lesotho, Liberia, Libya and Madagascar. I'm not sure if it's because my palace was rooted in fiction anyway, but my brain seemed to allow these new pieces of furniture, and assimilated them as part of the overall scheme. I can now see them in the rooms as clear as day, even though they never existed in the original mental image. I'm not sure if this works if you were to use your home as your palace - I can't see why it wouldn't, but at the same time, I would expect my brain to complain about such embellishments in a familiar real-world context.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
The problem I have with "journey/loci"systems like this, which go back to ancient Greece, is that they can be limited. I've always used the peg/link system in memory work. What I learned nearly fifty years ago from Harry Lorayne's "How to Develop a Super Power Memory," has served me extremely well in my career. (And you'll never run out of locations as in the ancient systems.)
sandsjr
View Profile
Special user
840 Posts

Profile of sandsjr
Don't forget that "pegs," regardless of what system you use, are "temporary" holding places. The idea is to move them off the pegs (short term memory) into the long term memory, if need be. Or, simply wipe them away. In practice and in most circumstances you wouldn't need hundreds of them.

Try using the homes of relatives and friends, schools you attended, stairways, hallways etc. You can use the yards on the 4 sides of these buildings. This should give you plenty of places to hang your new ideas.
dd123
View Profile
New user
55 Posts

Profile of dd123
Thanks all. Some great information as usual. I will certainly look up Harry Lorayne's work Bob, as I can certainly see the limitations of the journey type system. I seem to remember reading about a similar link system in an old Derren Brown book, and no doubt he got this from Lorayne's work. Although the journey system has worked well for me thus far, the more information I need to store the more tricky it will be to recall I think.
I also am yet to try adding/using existing furniture (such as drawers) into the journey around my house but will do so when I attempt to memorise longer lists (Shakespeare's 37 plays is the longest list so far for me).
And thanks also CJ for your info on building an entirely fictional palace, although this is still a room/building that is familiar to you. On this note, has anyone actually built a palace from scratch?
Dave Nic
View Profile
Loyal user
Australia
222 Posts

Profile of Dave Nic
Hey there,

I use the memory palace quite a lot and thought I may be able to offer the advice that works for me.

First thing that I think you have already mentioned is that you do use a route that is VERY familiar to you. How many hooks do you have along your route? In my journey I do come across my nanas mini she ALWAYS had parked in her driveway. With that alone I have the back seats of the mini the two front seats and inside the glove box.

Are you making the images far out and bigger then life itself? For example if I need to remember a routine I may be doing. Ive got to the point in my journey where I reach the mini. At this point I may need to cut a deck of cards. In my mind I open the door to the mini and take a look in the back seat and notice a pair of gigantic scissors cutting a deck of cards. In my mind these scissors are HUGE. Also very bright in colour. Almost blinding. Its rediculous how big these scissors are considering the cards are tiny. This gives my memory a jog and unlocks the next phase of this routine beggining with 'cutting cards'.

The beggining of my journey starts at a letter box. If remembering 'cheese' for a shopping list I would open the letter box and notice a stack of letters, I reach in to grab them. I notice a pungent smell, the neibours are yelling at me because the odour is offensive. They are sticky and floppy in my hands. They start to melt. I notice they are made up of cheese. There are holes in the cheese so it must be swiss cheese.

I have always used the same journey and never had trouble with that journey getting 'clogged up'. Ive used it hundreds of times for all sorts of things.

Anyhow, the above is a tiny bit of advice that has worked well for me. As long as the route you take each time is EXACTLY the same and it is so familiar to you that you could draw a map of the place if asked.

Make the images rediculous and out of this world.

Cheers. Have a great day!

Dave.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Or just learn the peg system and remove the limitations from your journey.
Dave Nic
View Profile
Loyal user
Australia
222 Posts

Profile of Dave Nic
The peg system is great.

Learn both. Then you can mix it up/choose one that works for you.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
The advantage of using the number/ alphabet sounds to form pegs on which to attach objects, is that there is NO limit to the number of items that can be memorized. You won't run out of sequential numbers.
Harry Lorayne
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York City
8447 Posts

Profile of Harry Lorayne
The "journey"/loci system is 3000 years old. Your call, of course, but I've written about 20 books on the subject - ideas used by literally millions all over the world, by large corporations (taught to all their executives, etc.) but - not in magic. Magicians will just go to the old, silly-by-age stuff, and ignore the good stuff. Fine with me. Listen to all those who really know above. I know, mastermindreader, thanks for letting me know - but I'm really getting tired of trying to tell those who
"really know." Incredible. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
C.J.
View Profile
Inner circle
There's a lotta rambling in my
2367 Posts

Profile of C.J.
The benefit of pegging is that a certain detail can be recalled at a specific point, whereas loci methods by nature generally help remember sequences. If you were to ask me which country in Africa comes 25th alphabetically, I can't tell you without counting through the list, because of the system I've used.

It's great to see Harry Lorrayne popping in - if anyone knows these concepts, it's him (although from his post, I can't quite tell whose side he is on here...?). I used to be good at memorising long numbers using the systems from The Memory Book which Harry wrote with Jerry Lewis. I just checked, and it's right there on my mentalism bookshelf between Paralies and Practical Mental Effects! (And no, although I alphabetise my DVDs, I have no system for arranging my mentalism resources).
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Connor- Harry wrote "The Memory Book" with Jerry Lucas, the basketball player, not Jerry Lewis.

I'm the one who brought this thread to his attention. He agrees with what I've been saying regarding the superiority of peg and link systems, as taught so well in his books, over the ancient loci method.
C.J.
View Profile
Inner circle
There's a lotta rambling in my
2367 Posts

Profile of C.J.
Quote:
On May 23, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Connor- Harry wrote "The Memory Book" with Jerry Lucas, the basketball player, not Jerry Lewis.


That's hilarious (?) that I did that, despite literally reading "Lucas" off the spine of the book only 20 seconds before I typed it. I think maybe I need to withdraw from any further discussion on Memory... Smile

As for agreeing with you, that makes sense in light of what I just said regarding specific recall. Thanks for clarifying.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
I thought it was funny, too, and knew exactly what you did.

Just bustin' your balls a bit.
dd123
View Profile
New user
55 Posts

Profile of dd123
CJ, I completely get the idea that using peg and link you can recall details at specific points and you're completely right that this is a weakness of the 'journey' method. This is the killer for me. Add into this the fact that two greats, in Bob and Harry, are also strong advocates of the peg and link method makes it a no brainer for me. I will be ordering Harry's book forthwith. Unless, dare I ask, there are any other recommendations that I should consider?
Actually, scrap that, Harry's book (Superpower Memory) it is.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Advice on mind palace (4 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL