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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Brute Force or Mnemonics (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

shakuni
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Is it a good idea to use mnemonics to remember a stack or should I use rote memorization? I think mnemonics will add an additional layer of calculation, thus increasing the recall time.
landmark
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Either, either; potato, potato.
The end result must be the same--instant association of card to number and vice-versa.
Harry Lorayne
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Yeah, use rote. Same as all my systems that I've written about for decades - according to landmark. So, stick to rote.
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pnielan
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As Landmark says, you can (and probably should use mnemonics) to learn a stack. However, to perform with a stack, the association must be instant which means the mnemonics have dropped away.

True but not quite: after awhile you end up with three-way association: card, number, and mnemonic link. Even when in complete command of the stack, I make a point to review the mnemonic links that have dropped away. If you get busy at work and ignore the stack for awhile, they help you tune it up. Getting to instant association takes much longer than learning the mnemonics. But it does happen. The beauty of mnemonics is early on, you can run through the whole deck in your head, no notes, no crib sheet, no nothing and practice while standing in line.

While I own every book (almost) Harry Lorayne has ever written, I only used the PEG #/Card Name mnemonic for some of the cards. For other cards, a "personal" mnemonic is more effective. My mother's birthday is the 11th and the 11th card of the Tamariz stack is QH. I'll never forget that. My childhood house number (Mom again) started with 46 and that's the QD. Don't forget that either. Michael Jordan wore #23 and won six titles with "heart", the 23rd card of the stack is the 6H. I also learned the "boundaries" by rote. 1st, 26th, 27th, and 52 cards. Later the 13/14 and 39/40 pairs that divide the quarter deck. Almost every diamond in the stack: 7D, 6D, 3D, 2D, ..., JD, 4D, 10D has a football jersey connection for me----19 is Unitas, 32 Jim Brown, 49--the Forty Niners. There are more. However for many, there is no personal connection. I used a Lorayne-like SAFE NUN to initially remember that the S-8 (8S) is the 22nd card. For 45, I think of Wolfman Jack (you have to be old enough to remember 45 rpm records).

Finally understanding your stack as a structure, a gestalt is useful. Both pairs of queens in Tamariz are separated by one card. The 1,2,3 sequence at the beginning is similar to the 27,28,29 sequence starting the second half. Some cards occur at the right place: the 6D is 6th, the 9S is 9th (there are more). There are a few K-J sequences in the stack. There's a mini staystack (sort of) starting at 39.

And just as an aside, I re-learned Harry Lorayne's Superpeek to use in conjunction with a great impromptu trick by Harry Riser. Such a nice handling.
landmark
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Quote:
On May 27, 2014, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Yeah, use rote. Same as all my systems that I've written about for decades - according to landmark.


I said nothing of the kind.
Harry Lorayne
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Oh, sorry if I misunderstood - which I think I did. Best - Harry L.
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landmark
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No problem.
ddyment
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To add further elements for consideration: classical mnemonics and rote memory are only two of the techniques used to learn a memorized deck. There are at least two others, as I discuss in some detail in my free essay on the subject. I also discuss the pros and cons of each approach.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
jeebs9
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It's pretty funny I use the Michael Jordan thing too lol
DarrenDelaney
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I used Mnemonics to memorise Tamariz's stack - benefit was I already had peg-words for all the cards and numbers from 1-52 as I used to do a lot of memory work. took me an hour to leanr the stack roughly, and after a few weeks working with the stack I knew pretty much all of them without need for mnemonics, but I have the associations as a fall back if a card/location "goes astray"

Downside is - if you're not currently using mnemonics for anything else, you'll need to learn/memorise a bunch of those first and then learn the stack.. could take longer potentially.
lcwright1964
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I actually found suggested phonetic-mnemonic systems so increased my work--and, frankly, unnecessary anxiety preventing me from even getting started on memorization--that I soon said the heck with it and started to drill-and-kill Mnemonica with a numbered deck (not quite as elaborate as Tamariz's suggestion in his book) and one of the excellent online tutors. I worked on the deck by quartiles, learning first the cards at the dividing points (1, 13, 14, 26, 27, 39, 40, 52), and filling in from there. Had it roughed out very quickly--a couple of days with a few minutes on it a day--and now a couple of months later it's solid. I have made it stronger in latter weeks by simply setting up every open and shuffled deck I get my hands on manually. It gives me a chance to consolidate my memory and practise my culling. In the process I do note some mnemonic associations idiosyncratic to me (5D is 25 which is divisible by 5, 5C is 30 which is divisible by 5, 3D is 12 which is divisible by 3, 6S and 5S are 15 and 16, 7S is 37 and 7C is 47, 10C is 24 while 10S is 34, etc.) but these aren't crucial anymore. I just know. Some of my all time favourite bafflers (Aronson's Invisible Card, Close's Invisible Deck, Wind's AACAAN, Maven's The Hawk, among others, Aronson's Some People Say) are stack-independent memdeck effects that are so good that going to trouble to memorize and maintain memory of a full-deck stack--anyone one likes--is more than worth it.
J-L Sparrow
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Quote:
On Aug 4, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote:
In the process I do note some mnemonic associations idiosyncratic to me (5D is 25 which is divisible by 5, ...)

I remember that 5D is 25 by thinking of the diamonds as "squares" (which is what they're known by in some languages). And 5 squared is... 25! So 25 isn't just divisible by 5, it's actually the square of 5. (And diamonds are more-or-less squares...)

Quote:
Some of my all time favourite bafflers (Aronson's Invisible Card, Close's Invisible Deck, Wind's AACAAN, Maven's The Hawk, among others, Aronson's Some People Say) are stack-independent memdeck effects that are so good that going to trouble to memorize and maintain memory of a full-deck stack--anyone one likes--is more than worth it.

Thanks for the list of tricks! (I love good recommendations.) But could you tell me in which books by Simon Aronson I can find "Invisible Card" and "Some People Say"?

Thanks!
Michael J
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Hi J-L Sparrow
Aronson's Invisible Card is in Try The Impossible P 175.
Sorry can't find reference to "Some People Say" in my Aronson books.

All the best

Michael
lcwright1964
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Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, Michael J wrote:

Sorry can't find reference to "Some People Say" in my Aronson books.



I erred in the name. It is actually "Some People THINK." It is the very first trick in Bound to Please, in Kabbala selections. Old trick published first in 1973. It was designed to fool magicians and is test condition location trick using a memorized deck which is subjected to a single legitimate riffle shuffle, multiply cut, the card removed the returned anywhere, and the deck multiply cut again. It bears some resemblance to Maven's The Hawk, but doesn't explicitly rely on the Gilbreath principle.

And I cannot recommend The Invisible Card enough. It is a baffler that requires any memstack and one simple move that is completely covered. There is no mental arithmetic and only a very little counting. As such it is one of Simon's simplest effects to do.

Les
twistedace
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Harry, I own your book How to Develop a Super Power Memory. I used the peg system when first starting to learn Aronson's stacks. I was wondering what your preferred method of memorizing a stack is. Do you still use the peg system or do you use wild images as you navigate a well known place? I'm just curious because I'm considering learning Mnemonica as well. Thanks!
Harry Lorayne
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Peg or Link systems only. Link if you need to know the cards in order/sequence only; Peg if you need to know the cards by number. Loci, or place, idea is 3000 years old - fine then, not now.
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twistedace
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Thanks for the reply!
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