|
|
stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
I have been studying floating effects, i.e., Zombie, tables, etc. and after watching endless routines of others , many spectacular, others not so... I find myself musing about performances choreographed to music. My question is this: when the ball, or table, or whatever rises, falls, attempts to escape based on the timing of the music--the crescendos, the soft spots, etc... does this subtly communicate to the audience that the object is in the performer's control?
Or am I overanalyzing? |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I have occasionally performed various effects while my wife plays a Celtic harp at a gig. That is, I am not the planned performer of the evening. The response has been that the music is controlling the astonishing events beyond the control of wither me or the harpist. That is what I desired.
So, my question in return is whether or not you wish the audience to believe you are in control? If so, then your selection of music and actions leading up to the levitation will condition what the audience is to believe. If you have another objective such as I did, then a different orchestration is required to train the audience. I prefer to create the setting in which magic is only partially in my control. Music can play a part in "selling" this idea. For the music to "subtly communicate" anything the donkey must first be hit between the eyes to focus attention and establish the link. Do you use music with other effects? As part of the entire show?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Frank Simpson Special user SW Montana 883 Posts |
I've always choreographed my zombie, floating ball, floating lady to music. If the magic reinforces the music, and the music reinforces the magic, then it's the whole being greater than sum of the parts. The music I use for the floating lady has a great applause cue in it right after the hoop passes.
Years ago I performed (among other things) the Ralph Adams dancing hank as Herr Drosselmeyer in The Nutcracker. Obviously this being a ballet it needed to be choreographed, and in that case in particular I listened to my assigned music many, many times and let it suggest the movement and routining of the effect. Onto the music's phrasing I superimposed a short storyline of cleaning the table top, putting the rag down and walking away and the rag coming back to life of its own accord. as the music slowed I sneaked up on it but missed it as it jumped into the bottle on the table. There was some back and forth until I decided to imprison it for good by corking the bottle. as I turned to again walk away the music swelled back into its main theme as the rag popped the cork from the bottle and continued its mischief. Finally I caught it by the tail and drew it close. It "kissed" my cheek as if to apologize and I snapped my fingers on the last note of the piece and the rag fell limp, where I then placed it into my pocket and moved to the next segment. It was an extremely popular sequence, and in the end the director insisted that the hankie get it's own bow during the curtain call (which I performed with a matching "Waltzing Matilda"). When choreographing (as opposed to soft general background music for an effect) I always try to make sure that the music is phrased the same way the magic is phrased. Sometimes this involves making minor changes in the magic, and other times it involves editing the music. But I try to get them both to convey the same thing. I think it is very easy for magicians to overanalyze this sort of thing, and conversly it is easy for them to ignore it completely or take a lackadaisical approach to it as well. Make art. That should be your goal. Cultivate all the skills necessary to do justice to your material, amd most importantly, to your audience. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Stempleton, I believe you are thinking of the question in the wrong way. This is do in fact that you are considering to using pre-recorded standard music or songs. If you would do as in movie creation and create a melody to the pre-created act and movement, then you would not have asked the question in the first place. You would have a custom melody piece.
So, don't think of it as you are creating the movements and floating to the melody, rhythm, and sounds, but you are finding a piece of music that fits you needs. Ask yourself if editing parts of the piece will I bought and listened to a lot of music, but I found a perfect floating ball while watching a movie. Don't forget to listen to the background music of movies you watch. I was watching an ice skating movie on television. I liked the songs and so hunted down the album. Being it was an older movie, I had to special order it, and found two songs in my opinion that would work very well with a floating ball. If the magician was not in control of the ball, then the routine would take on a whole different routine and effect. Kind of like, the ball would fly in from the wings of the theater or even coming from over the heads of the audience toward the stage. The ball nearly misses you because you ducked. It circles you and you could cast a spell on the ball taking control of it, or go in any direction of story line you would like. It all depends on which angle or view you wish to look at your version. |
stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
Hi, Bill
Glad You're back. I appreciate the comments you and Frank have left. I have not performed a floating item effect since I was a beginner, but throughout my adult years I have understood Zombie type effects as being performed "as if" the item were beyond the performer's control. The ball, for example, rising and being pulled back in to the background music would, perhaps, indicate that the performer was, in fact, able to control the ball, which would dilute the illusion. As for selecting the appropriate music, my careers in music retail and radio broadcasting, coupled with my love of popular music, collecting from the 1920s to the early 2000s, and an early start in the movie cinema, have allowed me to amass quite a collection of LPs and CDs, and even 45s. I'm skilled at audio editing. So, the selection of music is not a concern. My initial concern was much more simplistic: would a ball (table, etc.) responding to music indicate to the audience that the performer is controlling the item in sync with the music. If so, it would indicate the performer has control over the floating item, which seems to be at odds with the premise of many of the effects, ala Zombie. PS: The music used by Copperfield for his Snowstorm effect...I immediately recognized it as being from "Prince Of Tides" as it is one of my favorite soundtracks of all time. Music selection is the least of my worries. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Thank you for the background on your music knowledge, wish I was as informed.
Are you overlooking the fact that as a "magician" who has powers, could use those powers on an object. I have to akin this to movies, where a Wizard tries his powers on an object but the object seems to break away from the power. Thus, yes, the magician does control the object, but not continuously. So he tries again, like another spell if you will, and so on. In Zombie, the cloth could be a magic cloth and the fact that it is covering the object. What come to mind is like trying to 'break' a while horse. The horse resist, and throws the rider, and yet the rider get back on, again and again. Some riders win in the end, but some horse just cannot be broken. Even then, it does not mean you give up, but try another approach. The same could be with the Zombie or as I was thinking the Floating Ball that is currently become available. Music major role is to set 'mood' and bring attention to an important event about to happen. Have you ever had an action movie on and looked away. All of a sudden, the music get loud and frantic, which make you look up at the screen. Just them, a fiery crash. This is all the music is supposed to do for a magic act, unless the music is a part of the story and tells the story through the it's score. The audience should never be able to relate to the music. In other words, as you just wrote. Being able to name the song title. Just as Joseph Gabriel appeared on Johnny Carson, and used a section of the music from Rocky, where he ran up the stairs and held his hand high in the air. That is the image people will get, not of his finale effect of producing a great Macaw bird. The movie and music is just to famous to relate to any other performance. I would say, Control, but not total control. No one like to watch something that is to easy. Beautiful and artistic yes, easy no. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Is this discussion over already? It was just getting interesting.
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2014, stempleton wrote: Strictly speaking, no. People are used to watching dance -- ballroom, Broadway, tap, jazz, modern, whatever -- and to accept that the dancing and the music work together to create a unified picture. So when they see a floating thingie done to music, they just figure the performer is doing the floating to music. Whether they think it works or not is a whole separate conversation. For the audience to "believe" the object is in the perfomer's control (or not), you have to set up the performance -- the character and the choreography -- that way. The vast majority of floating objects I've seen, whether done to music or not, look like self-contained floating objects. Watching them, I had no clue whether they're floating by themselves (a magic prop doing its thing), or what. I was guilty of that too: when I was performing years ago, I would set up the ball on a table, all nice and neat, and, when the time came, I walked up to it and "demonstrated" it. It never occurred to me that the audience wouldn't see this as a miracle. Actually, come to think of it many years later, a lot of them probably found it distracting that the music had nothing to do with the moves.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Richiardi was of the opinion that the audience should never recognize the music for the exact reason Bill has named...they bring there prior 'associations' with the music to your show. That can work to your benefit if you do it for a particular reason.. to support your narrative or theme.
Second point, many magicians (music aside) don't have any clue what they are demonstrating when they do a floating effect or zombie (in particular) Is the ball animated...meaning it has it's own personality? Does th ball float of it's own accord or does the magician control it? Is the ball inanimate, but the presence of the cloth makes it 'come alive'? Any one of these ideas is valid and the effect can be performed to support the notion...but all too often the performance is a mixture of these ideas, resulting in an demonstration of an unclear 'power'. Regards- J.Neal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
|
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
WOW! Those are great insights I have thought of, really good observations on this topic. Stempleton did not commit to which Floating Ball or object he was referencing, but being he did bring the name Zombie into conversation, I can only assume this was his object.
I really thought it might be because of the new Floating Ball by Luis De Matos DVD on the market. I just received the DVD today and have mixed emotion about it after only watching half way through. It would be nice to analyze each scenario further, that the 2 above post mentioned. A greater understanding of each view would be wonderful. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
To present a trick like Zombie, there is actually no need for music at all. When I was a teenager, the local Fort Wayne Magic Club at the time put on yearly magic shows. I was lucky enough to see the last one or two they produced. One of the performers presented Zombie with patter that was a classic poem. It was very good and created the emotion needed for the effect.
I just finished viewing the new DVD, The Floating Ball, Luis De Matos stated that David P. Abbott (the thought of creator/inventor) presented his Floating Ball to patter, not music. Some magicians forget, that just because you see a trick performed one way, does not mean, that is the only way. Just like music, good use of Tonal Inflection and voice Tone will produce the same results as a good music score. Drawing in the audience to the Visual magical moments. I am not saying, to be descriptive with the Zombie as in: look the ball floats up, now down, now over hear, it's vanished, it's back, etc. No - No - No! Not that at all. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I have that Floating Ball DVD and am working on a routine in which it responds to my blind wife playing the harp, i.e. its actions are "controlled" by the music or its desire to be near the harp. AS noted above, I have done such things before. The new approach will allow me much greater freedom and latitude.
Luis also explains the use of a marionette as in introduction -- and I see a possibility to starting with a marionette dancing to the music who becomes free (pinochio-ish) as the music gifts the ability to fly. Or, the strings are cut and music brings it back to life, etc.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
The marionette was actually a replacement for exposure in the television studio, and they taped the audience vocal reactions. It had no part as far as the Floating Ball was concerned or part of the story. I see what you are thinking, but I don't it would be good as an introduction to the Floating Ball routine. Just my opinion listening to Luis' reasons for showing the in studio audience the marionette and not the television audience.
|
DallasFrank Regular user Hey Rocky watch me pull a Rabbit outta my hat...oops wrong hat! 104 Posts |
I am thinking of doing my Zombie Ball Routine to the Rocky theme.The name of the tune is Flying High Now and most people recognize it. I was thinking I could dodge the Zombie Ball kind of like a boxer dodging punches. Any thoughts on this idea?
Frank |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Boxes, tubes & bags » » Floating To The Music (2 Likes) |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |