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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Hopping halves/Sun and Moon? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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giochi
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Most of my Hopping Half sets have been called "Hopping Half/Sun and Moon. Now I see Sun and Moon being sold, (alone).

What is the difference?
Full Effect
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Nothing.
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eryanic
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Hey, any ideas for the Hopping Halves presentation? The only one I've seen is you tell the spectator that this is a 2 coin trick, then you put one coin in the pocket and ask them, "What color is left in my hand?", whether they say silver, or copper (doesn't matter), the magician says, "Wrong, this is a 2 coin trick".

Sort of cool because when you say what color, they sort of pay more attention to what color is being taken out of the hand, rather than the number of coins.
Curtis Kam
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The Sun and Moon coins allow you to perform one of the most impressive and memorable pieces of coin magic ever created. Add the thoughtful routining of Fred Kaps or Roger Klause and you have a stunning bit of magic worthy of the most exacting professionals.

The original handling featured a stunning visible transformation/transposition decades before "3 Fly" came along. The routine is just fine as originally written, in Bobo's. The revised edition. Fred Kaps' routine is available in his lecture notes (good luck finding this) and Roger Klause's "Soleil et Lune" is hiding in plain sight in Richard's Almanac.

The Hopping Half set allows dealers to sell beginners twice as many gaffs as they need to pull off a lackluster effect with looming presentational pitfalls.
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TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
...The routine is just fine as originally written, in Bobo's. The revised edition.

What is the routine called in Bobo's?
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Jgriff
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I bought Johnson's stand alone "Sun and Moon" coin. The difference is that you don't get the Johnson E.S or the English Penny E.S that comes with the Hopping Half set.

The "Sun and Moon" coin is perfect for doing a spellbound routine. Imagine showing a silver coin in spellbound position, it then changes to a copper coin, and you can show the copper coin front to back and it is the only coin in your hand.

Another great "Sun and Moon" routine can be found in Doug Brewer's book The Unexpected Visitor called EZ Triple Wilcoin.
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TheAmbitiousCard
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I believe that a sun and moon coin is a c/s coin with an e.p. sh***. Is this correct? I've never really known the exact definition myself. I've also never used it that way.

I do like Doug's book, The Unexpected Visitor and the EZTripleWildCoin is about the only thing in there I have not persued. I'll have to take a look tonight.
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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2004-01-15 14:33, Frank Starsini wrote:
I believe that a sun and moon coin is a c/s coin with an e.p. sh***. Is this correct?

Not exactly. It's like a Johnson Products' C/S/B with an English penny in place of the Chinese coin and a Kennedy half/English penny in place of the Mexican 20 peso/Kennedy half.

The big advantage (over the c/s coin with an e.p. sh*** you suggest) is that you can show it as an English penny all around, very slowly; you can even do a coin roll with it.

Quote:
On 2004-01-15 13:45, Curtis Kam wrote:
The Hopping Half set allows dealers to sell beginners twice as many gaffs as they need to pull off a lackluster effect with looming presentational pitfalls.

Too true! I've never liked the you're-such-an-idiot-you're-not-paying-attention-I'll-do-it-again-more-slowly presentation for anything—Hopping Half, Coins Through Table, Oil and Water—anything.

However, with a little thought you can come up with some unique presentations in the yes-you're-right-but-now-it's-changed-back-for-this-really-good-reason vein that are very entertaining. I stumbled across one; if I ever let another magician see it my magic coach (known as my "sensai" at the local sushi restaurant) will slay me.
TheAmbitiousCard
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That means I don't have one. Now I need to get one of those too.

How can one read Curtis' post up there and not want a sun/moon coin? Where can I get one?

We're all spending thousands of dollars on a drawer full of coins that aren't worth $20 on the street. Can't even buy a soda with any of this stuff.

When will the insanity end???
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jimisolo
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Eryanic,

I've always had issues with the "packaged" presentation of Hopping Halves. I was discussing this a few days ago on another thread and suggested a different theme that I currently use. After several members offering me a lot of positive feedback, I decided to just go ahead and post the whole thing. If interested, you can find it here.

Hope you like it, or it at least sparks a different train of thought in the handling of this particular effect. Let me know.

BTW, I would LOVE to find the Kaps routine for this!!! Smile
Curtis Kam
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Frank,

I think Bobo used the title "the Sun and Moon". You're right about the nature of the gaff in the abstract, but the sun and moon sets are machined closer. The "c/s" part is thinned enough for the entire package to look exactly like an EP. You can roll it, and even place it on a spectator's hand (but don't invite inspection). The routine in Bobo's (rev. ed.) uses the Goshman pinch. The Klause routine changes the nature of the gaffs so that you don't need the pinch.

Sorry, I have yet to see a really good S&M set in dollar sized coins, and even if there was one, the GP would make the angles dicey.

David Neighbors has published some very clever applications for the S&M gaff. It is also used in "The Protean Coin" in Bobo's, and would make a useful addition to a triple-changs spellbound routine.

I applaud the efforts of those who have fixed the presentational problems inherent in "Hopping Half". I still wonder, though, why bother? There are a lot of fine routines out there that aren't "fixer-uppers". The true measure of a routine is not how much you were able to improve it, but what you're left with when you're done.
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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2004-01-16 15:29, Curtis Kam wrote:
I think Bobo used the title "the Sun and Moon".

Sun and Moon by Albert Goshman it is.

Quote:
On 2004-01-16 15:29, Curtis Kam wrote:
I applaud the efforts of those who have fixed the presentational problems inherent in "Hopping Half". I still wonder, though, why bother? There are a lot of fine routines out there that aren't "fixer-uppers". The true measure of a routine is not how much you were able to improve it, but what you're left with when you're done.

I couldn't agree more. In the case I cited above, I had seen a performance of Hopping Half and hated the presentation. When I later came up with a theme I wanted to illustrate magically, the mechanics of Hopping Half fit perfectly. I hadn't had any intention of trying to improve a mediocre routine; as I said, I just stumbled into something beautiful.
jimisolo
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Curtis,

I bothered because I enjoyed the overall effect, but found flaw in the suggested presentation. I altered what I felt was "weak" for me and for my spectators. I also have a habit of working on things that I purchase that I perceive to not fit "me". As this is almost a constant from item to item, I really didn't see it as "going out of my way" with this little gem.

Quote:
The true measure of a routine is not how much you were able to improve it, but what you're left with when you're done. - Curtis

I couldn't agree more. I feel that I am left with an interesting and entertaining routine. Smile

I was curious as to whether you've (or anyone else around here for that matter) tried out Lassen's Sun & Moon sets? I'm interested in purchasing his Hopping Halves set with the Morgans, so would be interested to find out if someone was displeased with the quality of his coins. So far I've heard nothing but GREAT things about his work, thus the question. Smile

Thanks for the tip on the Neighbor's material. I'll have to add it to the old "wish list". Smile
Slightly Offhand
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I have a Lassen Sun and Moon, among others, and I can't tell you any different from others that wax lyrical about Lassen gaffs....the Sun and Moon is literally undetectable by viewing, and takes some quite determined handling to realize that indeed, it is a gaffed coin. Of course, it also comes with a beautiful matching EP Sh..!
Daniel Faith
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I don't recommend the canned presentation for Hopping Halves. It's very weak and makes the spectator a dummy.

I use a presentation I call Lucky Coins. It's a story-type format about me...I am a superstitious guy who started carrying a lucky coin and then two because I have been trying to win the lottery unsuccessfully. I have it in writing if anyone wants it. Just PM me.
Daniel Faith
Dougini
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Interesting thread, guys!

My Hopping Half has sat in my coin box (a converted tool box) for years. I've never used it. One reason is, I've stopped doing tricks that make a fool of the spectator. My girlfriend (brutally honest) revealed that was one of my many flaws. People did not "feel good" at the end. "Show off" was the word.

A few years back, I adopted Jerry Andrus' philosophy of respect and courtesy (although it's not very "trendy" today) toward the spectator. As such, the Hopping Half turned me off.

"Why did you buy it, then?" you might ask. Well it came in one of three boxes of "stuff" I bought at a ridiculously discounted price, from our local magic shop when it closed. A whole bunch of Johnson stuff was in there: "Mint", "Silver Extraction", "Exp**** Sh***'s (EP, Kennedy 1/2, and quarter size), a C/S, and some others, I can't think of right now.

Now that I stumbled into this thread (now THAT'S going to leave a bruise) I am going to dig this out. I had heard of the Sun & Moon and had no idea...

Ever grateful, once again! Smile

Doug
Daniel Faith
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Doug

So change the presentation! Nothing says that you have to do it the way the directions say? It's really better to use your own style anyway. Nothing like a self-working miracle!
Daniel Faith
Jonathan Townsend
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As Curtis pointed out above, the sun/moon gaff allows for a STUNNING appearance/vanish of a silver coin between two copper coins. -> From a fan at the fingertips. Quite visual! Between this and the old Slippery Sam gimmick, I dare had fun that summer (in 1977).

There is another application called BLASTED which was/is a market effect of Tannen's. An English penny is placed on an ashtray and covered with a champagne glass. A half dollar is introduced and tapped on the base of the inverted glass, whereupon it appears with the English penny, under the glass, visibly pops into existence there! Yes it's stunning. The glass is picked up and the coins displayed. The hands are otherwise empty. Nice trick.

There you go, another reason or three to get to the shops tomorrow and pick up this tool.

Have a good weekend!

Jonathan
...to all the coins I've dropped here
David Neighbors
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Hi Gang,

Thanks Curtis, and I will have some more stuff in the hard bound (hopefully coming out next year). One of my S&M coins is a reverse Sun and Moon coin, i.e. the outside is a silver coin and the inside is a copper coin! I had Tod make it up for me in a Barber Half!

Also, I have used a gambling (third person) patter for my hoping half routine (that starts off clean with two real coins)! OK, later man!

Best David Neighbors
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Dan Watkins
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Hey guys,

I don't do Hopping Half, but I do use an abbreviated version of Mark Jenest's Short Hop routine, which for all intents and purposes is the Hopping Half routine without all the shells. It uses one silver coin, one copper coin, and one C/S coin. Anyway, the structure of the routine is similar.

You can do the Hopping Half routine, without making a fool of the spectator. Here is what I do:

I take the first coin and put it in my pocket and ask them what is left. Instead of telling them they aren't watching or they are wrong, I handle it like this: I pause for a second, and tell them, "You know, I forget what I had left in my hand, lets start over." Then I open and show both coins.

This changes the whole tone of it. *I* made a mistake, *I* could not remember, so I use magic to fix the situation. It put all the fault on me, and a reason to make the coin come back.

When I put the other coin in my pocket, I ask again, what is left in my hand. They tell me which coin. Again, instead of telling them they need to watch closer, etc. I immediatly tell the person, "You are correct! In fact, you can't be wrong, I made both come back again just to be safe."

You can see this is the opposite of telling them, you are wrong, they are both here. It says the same thing, but tells the spectator they are right, not wrong.

Again, I do the next coin, and really put it in my pocket, they can see it go in the pocket and I ask them what is in my other hand.

When they say silver, I open part of my hand and show them copper. I look at them and tell them, don't worry even though the copper came back, you are still right, you see the silver is here as well.

For the last one, I tell them, "I was going to ask you what is left, but I can tell you are starting to really watch my hands like a hawk. So I am going to quit while I am ahead, and bail out of the routine, open show the coins gone."

It is the same basic routine, just reworded so you don't belittle your spectator. It seems to work well for me.
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