I do different nights for different reasons. Some of my work is straight psychic development work where obviously to use something like this would be terribly inappropriate. But showing them how to glass pushing I can fit more easily. What they choose to believe with something like glass pushing or pendulums is their own choice. I'm not stating it is spirits. Whereas a spirit bell would be a bit overkill for nights like that. I'm a firm believer in less is more. A lot can happen in the mind without resorting to any physical trickery. People screaming from a Ouija wouldn't be appropriate for a lot of what I do. I aim to create a positive experience. I like the idea from inception, "positive emotion trumps negative emotion everytime". I can do this with my glass and pendulum, whereas a wonderfully dark bit of kit like this could be used, but wouldn't be my first port of call.

However other nights I do darker work and I could use an electronic bell or pendulum and yes I'm sure it would get amazing reactions. The use of electronics isn't a black and white issue. There are times its the right tool for the job and times when it isn't. It's all in the use. But personally I start from what can be achieved from basic kit and work from there. I like traveling light.

I think what Joshua is talking about is a seance experience that is based around ungaffed phenomena. Such phenomena might include pendulum work, ouija/glass moving, past life regressions, perhaps tarot card readings as an opener, and ending with a black-out seance where the guests hold hands and call out to spirit. None of the 'routines' would include electronics, magnets, invisible wire etc. They would be 'clean'. Now, of course, we can debate all day (or night) long about the psychology of the seance, ideomotor function, wish-fulfillment, mass hysteria etc., but to all intents and purposes the complete evening is ungimmicked. This is how I run my seance evenings.

For the record, I don't employ mediums & don't act as the medium myself. The entire evening is about providing an experience for the guests, and allowing them to make up their own minds about what they have experienced and what the likely explanations are.

Not wanting to stir the pot (but what the hey), electronic or gimmicked props would stand out a mile in such an environment unless handled *very* conservatively and thoughtfully. There is a danger when using gimmicked props of things straying into Bob Hope's Ghost-Breakers territory. Which is, of course, great if that's what you're after.

http://youtu.be/M3pnf4RRLxU

However I'm sure with careful handling any electronic prop can cause wonders, and I'm sure that when a planchette flies off the ouija board the entire group jump a mile. I know I would!

After re-reading everything Joshua and with respect I say this. Truly believing electronics are not for the serious performer and are some how a step down is a bit of a short a short sighted view. My girlfriend plays classical music in the symphony and likes to think her style is more moving because she is a music snob (in a innocent/naive way). She has never been moved in a mosh pit or banged her head, that might be beneath her. It doesn't make her right she just prefers her style of music. The mosh pit is a much more intense musical experience if you ask me. Being a purist about anything is not considering there are other ways to get to the finish line and in the right hands may be a bigger miracle.

There are things you can do with electronics you could never do organically in a million years that would take a few years off of someone

I just think pacing/timing and a well placed gaff is the mosh pit. It helps me to push it past the purity ceiling using every tool at my disposal.

I'm not saying there not for the serious performer. I'm saying there not for most of what I do. I've attended other performers seances and spook shows and I've seen amazing responses from both. I usually take lay people with me to any and its often the ungaffed which have left things which they still talk about to this day. But then I've also seen Hobb's box used to wonderful effect, used in a low key way as described. Leaving it as a background ring, not the centre of attention. It is all a matter of right tool for the right job.

I have to say, I'm really enjoying this thread I like the discussions and opinions being stated here. I'm about entertaining and all aspects of it. At heart this is what we do.

I believe electronics are killer when used in the right context. I know my props are beyond reproach. All designed to look like the furthest possible thing that could even BE electronic.

That said, there's nothing wrong with "old school" methods or muscle motor work. Personally I want my audience to go away, blown away. How that is achieved is up to the individual performers preference.

I enjoy this thread too, it remind me an old discussion I had in penny about using "tells" vs "electronic" to accomplish the which hand effect, some prefer the psychological one to make it looks more real, other prefer electronic to get a sure fire hit, people actually got different approach, that's how we different from each other. I actually learn a lot from you guys thinking on "pure suggestion" vs "electronics", and how to bland electronics in naturally

Hand Saw VS Power Saw ?
The master craftsman uses the tool that works best for each situation.

Greatest tool in the box ?
Acting

Joshua J. ( not to derail the thread ) I'd love to hear you describe a good spookshow you've seen. They died out in the States in the '70s. Here, they were offered with a horror movie and usually used illusions like the buzz-saw & head-chopper or girl to gorilla, ending with monsters running out into the audience.

We have been lucky in NYC to have theatrical spook shows still

I wish you all could have seen Play Dead live...
http://playdeadthemovie.com/trailer/

We even had a spook show you could bring the kids to...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3JPtnq6JoA

Indeed going for the genuine seance wouldn't ever look at using electronics. Glass pushing and pendulum work all the way. Nothing to go wrong, no battery failings and people generally see it as more "real". It goes more into spook show realms getting the electronics out like this. But I think there is a bit of a cultural difference on these things. What the UK audience would accept and what a US accept I reckon is quite different if you are trying to go for convincing people of genuine ghosts. However for a spook show or bizarre show these have endless possibilities. [/quote]




Joshua I'm a serious performer and I use electronics in genuine seances. You did say a genuine seance would never use electronics so you are implying a serious performer would not use electronics. Even if that was not your intent as I now understand. What is a genuine seance? Is it real if people believe it is? If I make them believe could that not be considered a real seance? A specs would look at un-gaffed effect as being more real (that's simply not a given)? That was not the case in the golden age when mediums were pulling strings in the dark, people thought that was very real but it was gaffed. Do you know someone who has raised a real spirit

I also do not believe cultural differences between UK audiences and US audiences play a role. I can scare you with electronic in a seance and it doesn't matter if you're from the UK or US or Cuba. For example Darren Brown's youtube videos. He actually picked people who were more susceptible to believing in the supernatural then gaffed them out of their minds. My point is culture can play a part (like my example of tribes people you can blow on a kleenex and make it move and they may believe in ghosts) but its more about how well you can act and if people are open to this type of entertainment.



It is also a hand saw verse power saw debate as 13 mentioned.

We all have our do's and don't's style of performing...
I do see this as a nice little box, for your *obb's *hand !

It's all good I'm just debating No bad feelings at all. I hope it doesn't sound that way. I'm just passionate and a little dramatic. I come by that naturally. It is a good conversation.
What is a real seance I'm not sure I even know

This thread has certainly become derailed, but in a very good way. And, as it's already been pointed out...no one seems to be wrong. It all comes down to a performer's style of presentation, and her or his comfort level with the audience and surroundings.

I am reading some very passionate pleas from both camps...and they all seem to be spot on. In fact, I never considered an ungimmicked performance until now.

Be glad, this thread was not posted in 'Penny' !

Yep, then it would be called the Bizarre Penny......lol

A scorched earth flame war would have ensued. Dark blessings to all spookies for keeping their egos in small cages where they belong (mine included).

Don't put your spooky creative ego in a cage! Dissolve it in the waters of limitless creativity and return with a brand-new effect & presentation. But... keep it for yourself!!!

I use my electronic gadget as a sort of out.

I play the seance without electronics and when I see that people are already spooked and satisfied, I stick with the low tech methods. But sometimes you need a kind of booger bang and that's when my Hobbs judgement cones into play. ..

Eddie Garland, is there going to be a DVD made available of Play Dead?

I have no idea.