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Mad0hatter Regular user 192 Posts |
So I recently bought an effect that is base on the coin that has different country of origin on either side. The two effect that came with and the two that it are base on offer a false choice of three coins and either hoping the participant choose as you need or you can bluff your way out. And the out for half the routines is turn to another and ask them to choose from the remaining options, so that kind of limit the when/where of the effect.
So I can't help wonder why give them the third choice, why write that into your little vignette? Is the one out of three so much more impressive than the 50/50? I |
bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
The harder the odd's the stronger the magic will be.
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
It doesn’t have to be a crap shoot. Use PATEO to get the selection down to the one you need it to be.
Jim |
Mad0hatter Regular user 192 Posts |
I do not think PATEO will work very well given that there is nothing to point at. With the routines in question there is just the one coin. You give the participant the option to name one of three coins, e.g. copper, silver, brass. If the name copper or silver your golden just reveal one side of the coin. If they name brass well then now you need your out.
I'm not dissing forces but you can not force every thing, well maybe you can but I'm not going to. But that is not really the point I am interested in. I think it was in a Penguin lecture or maybe a thread on here where some one was talking about psychological forces and how you had to have an out and usually your out would be just as good as it's own effect. So the question remains why build a routine that has an out if it could be structured not to? Which with the effect in question is just eliminating the brass coin from the options. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Try, "I am holding several coins in my hand -- a silver one, a brass one or a copper one. An international choice. Which of these coins do you think is the most magical?"
If they name a copper or silver, reveal that coin with, "You are obviously very attuned to magic -- the others have vanished. May I show you something even more profound? and proceed with another effect with their rapt attention. If they name Brass you say, "Very astute of you. That coin has indeed now vanished from my hand, leaving only the copper and silver. Which other coin would you command to vanish?" Then reveal the other one remaining -- and proceed with another effect.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
cperkins Special user 700 Posts |
Voila!
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe) |
Mad0hatter Regular user 192 Posts |
I do not need alternate routines or tricks for my device, I already have several. At no point have I asked for alternatives, the question I asked was about the thinking behind building a routine with an out. The question is one of theory. And so far only only bowers has addressed the question.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Hummmm ...
As the purpose of the Café' is "magicians helping magicians" methinks the posting of any question on a thread does "ask for alternative" -- especially if the premise of the argument is in error or incomplete. Here you place as a foundation that the choice offered is "false" and that one must "bluff" their way out. My offering was an example of how a crafted presentation can include a plan to cover alternative selections and therefor is neither false nor requiring a bluff. That side, I can understand that the vagaries of Internet communication could have "can't help wonder" imply a "theoretical query," but note that the word "theory' is not used and any idea of restricting responses to "theory only" seems a stretch. and what theory ware supposed to wallow in? Are three choices better than two? Is the use of three different colors of coins an advantage? Is the "international" theme viable? Would a forth choice be better or worse? Each of these could require an "out" -- or not a careful scripting/framing might allow. My "thinking behind building a routine with an out" is that they should be avoided as unnecessary to creating a good effect, i.e. planning and story line can eliminate the need for any "out." One way to do this would be to use only two coins -- which I think you suggested in non-theoretical phrasing. My experience is that the choice between two alternatives is "restrictive" compared with a selection between numerous options which seems more "open" and "free." Using coins has a special significance since many folks are familiar with two sided coins or stories of same. Additionally, the choice between two objects is the theme of many puzzles -- a connection you wish to avoid. if theoretically your objective is "the story told after" rather that "fooling" folks or posing an ego based "I am better than you" scenario, then a choice between several objects rather than two is superior. Any reliance on an "out" or "false choice" or "Bluff" makes it a poor effect regardless of the number of items. Consider two effects: you have one black and one white stone on the table and two volunteers. The first chooses a stone which you place in their hand and fist. The second person has no choice and is given the remaining stone to hold in fist. You now "do your thing" and have them open their hands to discover that the stones have changed places. in the second effect you have three volunteers and your silver, copper, brass coins. Person "A" freely chooses one coin. Person "B" also makes a free selection. Person "C" gets the remaining coin but knows it was random as to who choose first and doesn't feel restricted. Each person hold their coin in fist against their heart and announces which coin they hold. They then imagine the coin they would like to have instead of their held one -- another free choice between two "not held" coins. Each opens their hand on command to discover they each hold the dreamed of coin rather than the one originally held. Now, I would suggest that theoretically the second effect would be considered far more magical than the first. Practically, I have performed both effects and can attest that both can be equally magical depending on the setting -- and that either is superior tot he one you suggested originally. Why perform an effect with an "out" when better effects are available that have no "out" consideration? There was a lot of "thinking behind" the routining of each of these effects -- none of which had anything to do with an "out."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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