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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
I respectfully disagree Ray. I subscribe to the code of ethics as laid out by SAM & IBM. These three in particular:
"Oppose the willful exposure to the public of any principles of the Art of Magic or the method employed in any magic effect or illusion." "Recognize and respect for rights of the creators, inventors, authors and owners of magic concepts, presentations, effect and literature, and their rights to have exclusive use of, or to grant permission for the use of by others of such creations." "Display ethical behavior in the presentation of magic to the public and in our conduct as magicians, including not interfering with or jeopardizing the performance of another magician, either through personal intervention or the unauthorized use of another’s creation" The code is there for a reason. We need to protect the art from the unethical bad eggs in our community. Otherwise we all end up suffering.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Adam Paul Veteran user 332 Posts |
I'm afraid Craig has reached an all time low here.
With Red, Craig "forgot " about the original version (by Bob King), then recreated it. With this business venture he (and Russell Leeds) is teaching laypeople illusions and street magic. I can't for a single second, how he can possibly think this is ethical. I'm sure he'd be upset if someone else started doing this, exposing his effects or those he performs at his gigs. I used to consider myself a fan of Mr Petty, but this is completely wrong! |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote: You make some telling points !!!! Let's get him !!! Then are we going after all the magic dealers for selling magics secrets even more cheaply. |
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Adam Paul Veteran user 332 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 21, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote: Ray, Craig is exposing OTHER people's effects! I don't imagine he's paying royalties to the original inventers, do you? The trainees may well be asked to keep the secrets private and I'm sure some will. But imagine those people are at an event and see a magician perform a trick that they were taught by Craig, do you really believe that none of them will reveal the secret? Maybe even in front of the magician? |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
I'm not sure Ray's getting the point. Give him a minute so he can catch up with the discussion and the position he's putting himself in.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Adam Paul wrote: You're up there doing the head twisting illusion and somebody shouts out the secret. Because having been trained by professional magicians and having done the trick themselves they wouldn't have more rapport with the Magician performing than the audience. Makes sense ! We are getting wildly carried away here methinks. There is a level of hypocrisy perhaps in what Craig is doing but we've flogged that one to death before. He's a moderately well known magician on here because he has the opportunity to blather on on WPR. But the he's not the be all and end all of magic, he's a perfectly adequate workmanlike magician doing what he does to put a crust on the table. It's not worth all the fuss. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote: Hey, your big wooden spoon is especially smelly today. Are you aiming for a repeat of the WPR Dobson threads which if I remember correctly you kicked off on here? I do get as many laughs as you from your mischief but this one is a bit cheap and desperate J. |
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funnymagic Regular user The funny farm 166 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote: Watch 2:10-2:18 on their promo video and tell me that the people are being respectful. Non magicians have no understanding of why secrets should be kept, they will be blabbing to everyone about how the illusions work. This is an absolutely disgusting thing to be doing. Petty and his cronies should be ashamed. |
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Adam Paul Veteran user 332 Posts |
Ray, thanks for glossing over the fact that he's exposing effects that aren't his to give away. But then again, that wouldn't support your point would it?
I'm sure if they were exposing effects that you'd created you might be bothered about this. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Adam Paul wrote: Wouldn't give a running f!#@. It's not about the secret it's about entertaining |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote: There's a time for light banter. There's a time to be serious. This is a time to be serious.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote: :) You are a thoroughly bad lot but I do love you. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote: The feeling is mutual Ray. The best bit about falling out is making up.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Adam Paul Veteran user 332 Posts |
Not sure how you can even begin to justify this, Ray.
It's wrong and you know it. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Adam Paul wrote: I think it's inconsequential in the scheme of things. I think selling somebodies effect to others for them to perform and make money from is wrong. That's not what's happening here...It's limited and I assume controlled exposure and it makes magic fun for the participants. Do you really see serious harm in this? And finally I am pleased to say that I don't fall for Jamie F hand grenades which are designed for his amusement and nothing else. I pity the folk who don't have the wit to see what is going on here. |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts |
Ray,
When Craig Petty teaches the tricks to corporate entities, those same entities will not hire a magician that has those tricks in his demo DVD. They won't "feel rapport". The people that hire my shows like to be surprised. If they see something they know the secret to, they won't hire me. It cheapens the value of the performer. I normally don't divide pros and hobbyists but in this case it does matter. You don't do shows so you don't really have any experience with selling your show and creating value. Not a knock on you Ray, just we see different aspects of this case. There are so many things that are wrong about what Petty is doing. Unbelievable. James ps Why does Craig Petty always wear that colostomy bag on his review show? Quote: On Jun 21, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
Still with the Chinese circus
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Adam Paul Veteran user 332 Posts |
Wonder if Craig is a member of The Magic Circle? I know for sure its against their code of ethics.
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Adam Paul wrote: Craig is is an associate member of the Inner Magic Circle with a Silver Star. The motto of the society is the Latin indocilis privata loqui, roughly translated as "not apt to disclose secrets" (lit. "incapable [of] speaking [of] private [things]"); members give their word not to wilfully disclose magic secrets other than to bona fide students of magic. Anyone breaking this or any other rule may be expelled.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
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On Jun 21, 2014, Xiqual wrote: I wouldn't hire anybody with those tricks in their Demo DVD either, but for totality aesthetic reasons. But you're right, you understand the impacts on jobbing magicians better than I do do I'll bow out of Jamies latest bit of bloodsport and leave it to the pro's. Craig being a jobbing pro, hopefully he has some answers so maybe he'll quit lurking in the background like a big cissy and face Jamie's inquisition. |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
This isn't bloodsport.
I care about the craft. I care about secrets and their exposure. I care about protecting inventors rights. That is all.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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