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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Art Vanderlay excerpt (60 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stephen Young
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It seems some people have decided (on nothing at all but a gut feeling) that they are being hoodwinked.

Let's get this straight, nothing is being offered for sale.
No one is being asked to invest anything, financially or intellectually
Art has no responsibility to satisfy the whinging and/or feelings of incredulity of anyone.

I've met Art.
As far as I can tell he is a nice guy.
A straight talking guy.
And generous.

I have read plenty of his work.
Although some of it doesn't suit my persona, that doesn't reduce it's quality.

I've no idea how/if he can sculpt clouds
and because I don't know I won't start calling him a fraud just because I am not privy to the details.

If you don't believe the clip is genuine, OK
But there's no need for comments like "How low can you go" until you are asked to invest something in the effect which demands your acceptance of it being genuine.

steve
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, IAIN wrote:
He's not selling it...


Right. Not selling this claimed cloud writing effect. Only trying to convince (sell us) that he actually produced the effect claimed...but not actually substantiating that tall claim.

...of course he is selling other things...
brehaut
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Over the years I have witnessed certain effects that I swore had to be a stooge. It had to be because I could not comprehend a way to do it. Over time I have learned the method to some of the effects. There was no stooge. Just some incredible thinking. Often the method was going to way more trouble than I could imagine someone would ever go to in order to create an effect. I have performed effects where I was told "so and so was in on it". They were not. How do you refute it? Do you reveal the method? Of course not.

I have no idea how Art performed his effect. But just because I don't know, I am not going to be reduced to simply saying it had to be a stooge.
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, brehaut wrote:
Over the years I have witnessed certain effects that I swore had to be a stooge. It had to be because I could not comprehend a way to do it. Over time I have learned the method to some of the effects. There was no stooge. Just some incredible thinking. Often the method was going to way more trouble than I could imagine someone would ever go to in order to create an effect. I have performed effects where I was told "so and so was in on it". They were not. How do you refute it? Do you reveal the method? Of course not.

I have no idea how Art performed his effect. But just because I don't know, I am not going to be reduced to simply saying it had to be a stooge.


Rather obviously you do not reveal the method...but you also don't shy away from challenges to perform the effect. So far only one person has experienced the alleged effect. That would be Ben on the video.

Was Ben a stooge?

At this point I would venture to say, probably.

But what if Ben was not a stooge? What if his brilliant performance was real? And he really did see a name in the clouds?

If Art had / has the ability to produce such a miracle, then why not demonstrate it with others...who have credibility as mentalists here on the Café...like Looch, for example?

Or some of the other well known, and highly respected individuals such as Richard Osterlind, Banacheck or Bob Cassidy?

Certainly they could validate the claims and give Art massive amounts of great PR.

Without even having to know how he did it.

Without revealing anything.
Stephen Young
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Why should Art be turned into a performing monkey to satisfy people on here?
Maybe he had a team of 200 people to pull this off.
it doesn't matter.

He has pointed out he didn't arrange for this clip to be made public
He has said he won 't share it.
Either believe it, or don't. but don't start shouting that he owes anybody a performance on demand.

steve
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Enotskcalb

I can think of a million reasons why he would not perform just because someone says "jump". I have sold an effect called PIN ATTACK. It allows me to instantly tell someone with no pumping their PIN CODE to their alarm system. I don't see them push in the code. I don't ask them any questions. I just announce it. One problem---I can't do it all the time. It has limitations. In fact, when I marketed it, I said very clearly you may only do this once a year. Keep in mind--no one sees you ever fail. You simply do it or you don't. When I do perform it, it is a reputation maker.

So in PIN ATTACK I can't do it whenever someone asks, it has to be the right situation, and when it happens---I can't just repeat it. Do I use a Stooge? NO. But under your test, you would say probably. By the way, it is for sale so I could prove it doesn't use a stooge for anyone who purchases it.
IAIN
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Or, replicate Art's effect with a stooge and post it up to compare facial expressions and so forth?
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Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, Stephen Young wrote:
It seems some people have decided (on nothing at all but a gut feeling) that they are being hoodwinked.

Let's get this straight, nothing is being offered for sale.
No one is being asked to invest anything, financially or intellectually
Art has no responsibility to satisfy the whinging and/or feelings of incredulity of anyone.

I've met Art.
As far as I can tell he is a nice guy.
A straight talking guy.
And generous.

I have read plenty of his work.
Although some of it doesn't suit my persona, that doesn't reduce it's quality.

I've no idea how/if he can sculpt clouds
and because I don't know I won't start calling him a fraud just because I am not privy to the details.

If you don't believe the clip is genuine, OK
But there's no need for comments like "How low can you go" until you are asked to invest something in the effect which demands your acceptance of it being genuine.

steve



No. It's more than a gut feeling.

We have been led to believe that an effect was produced - a quite miraculous effect, at that, without so much as a shred of evidence that the supposed effect even took place. For example, we were never shown the name in the clouds...only led to believe the name was there.

The creator of the apparent miracle has said he will not repeat the effect for those who challenge him, nor will he ever reveal the method.

Doesn't pass the smell test.
IAIN
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So lets follow your logic, he sells a course or three, they are then disappointed and harsh reviews pop up...Art's reputation is ruined and he never sells anything again because of it...is it, as a creator, worth that risk for say £150?

i gave nearly 50 free mini readings via email and pm when I first put something out, and its knackering and difficult to say no without appearing an arse or making excuses...
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Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, brehaut wrote:
Enotskcalb

I can think of a million reasons why he would not perform just because someone says "jump". I have sold an effect called PIN ATTACK. It allows me to instantly tell someone with no pumping their PIN CODE to their alarm system. I don't see them push in the code. I don't ask them any questions. I just announce it. One problem---I can't do it all the time. It has limitations. In fact, when I marketed it, I said very clearly you may only do this once a year. Keep in mind--no one sees you ever fail. You simply do it or you don't. When I do perform it, it is a reputation maker.

So in PIN ATTACK I can't do it whenever someone asks, it has to be the right situation, and when it happens---I can't just repeat it. Do I use a Stooge? NO. But under your test, you would say probably. By the way, it is for sale so I could prove it doesn't use a stooge for anyone who purchases it.


Those are fair points. I do my own version of your PIN ATTACK, quite possibly with the same method (without knowing anything about yours). And as you say, it only works when the circumstances are just right.

Back to this thread...from what I've seen from the video shown, I think it's nothing more than two guys trying to pull one over. There's just nothing believable about it.

I could be wrong. I'd love to see Art demonstrate the effect for some of the big names.
mastermindreader
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What difference does it make? He's not selling it.

Dunninger once claimed to be able to make a battleship invisible. As far as I know he never offered the effect for sale and no one every criticized him for it.
voh002
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, Stephen Young wrote:
It seems some people have decided (on nothing at all but a gut feeling) that they are being hoodwinked.

Let's get this straight, nothing is being offered for sale.
No one is being asked to invest anything, financially or intellectually
Art has no responsibility to satisfy the whinging and/or feelings of incredulity of anyone.

I've met Art.
As far as I can tell he is a nice guy.
A straight talking guy.
And generous.

I have read plenty of his work.
Although some of it doesn't suit my persona, that doesn't reduce it's quality.

I've no idea how/if he can sculpt clouds
and because I don't know I won't start calling him a fraud just because I am not privy to the details.

If you don't believe the clip is genuine, OK
But there's no need for comments like "How low can you go" until you are asked to invest something in the effect which demands your acceptance of it being genuine.

steve


Quote:
On Jul 7, 2014, Art Vanderlay wrote:

I have been studying and performing Elemental Manipulation for many years now, it is something very unique and the effects created are nothing short of miracles. I will be making a DVD demonstrating and teaching some of these effects later on in the year hopefully as I would like to see more people doing this unique branch of magic.

If anyone would like to learn more about this kind of work there are a scattering of books on the subject and I also hold Elemental Manipulation training sessions where I teach you pretty much everything I know on the subject. In fact I am doing one in August at Ilkley Moor.

Kind regards
Art


Since you probably didn`t see this Stephen, you must look at this post from Art.

He suddenly promote a DVD on the subject and a training session, were he will teach everything regarding the subject.

Well, maybe it is all a coincident that this clip was "accidently leaked" just before...

I respect SO many people here (including you Steve), and there are many good ideas to be shared and good products to buy from creators. But we also sometimes have to stand up to people who is obviously trying to deceive us, even if they are our friends.

I normaly don`t react on things that are posted here, but this crossed a limit that made me emotional provoked. Even the first reaction, when the name were reveald with the heartstone I immediately saw it was acting, actually very bad acting. And then the name was in the clouds and it just went from bad to worse. Now it has turned out to be ridiculous, with the DVD, the leak on youtube, and that the hole village could have seen the name in the clouds and more.

Art should say he was sorry for this, and not be remembered for this act.
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, IAIN wrote:
So lets follow your logic, he sells a course or three, they are then disappointed and harsh reviews pop up...Art's reputation is ruined and he never sells anything again because of it...is it, as a creator, worth that risk for say £150?

i gave nearly 50 free mini readings via email and pm when I first put something out, and its knackering and difficult to say no without appearing an arse or making excuses...



No, that's not my logic at all.

Art's already said he is not selling this method...rather 'taking it to his grave.'
So there's no risk of bad reviews because he's not selling the method in the video...only using it to generate attention, controversy, lots of posts from people debating back and forth...with hopes of selling other things he offers.
IAIN
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If its a wind up, good on 'em!
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Stunninger
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, voh002 wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, Stephen Young wrote:
It seems some people have decided (on nothing at all but a gut feeling) that they are being hoodwinked.

Let's get this straight, nothing is being offered for sale.
No one is being asked to invest anything, financially or intellectually
Art has no responsibility to satisfy the whinging and/or feelings of incredulity of anyone.

I've met Art.
As far as I can tell he is a nice guy.
A straight talking guy.
And generous.

I have read plenty of his work.
Although some of it doesn't suit my persona, that doesn't reduce it's quality.

I've no idea how/if he can sculpt clouds
and because I don't know I won't start calling him a fraud just because I am not privy to the details.

If you don't believe the clip is genuine, OK
But there's no need for comments like "How low can you go" until you are asked to invest something in the effect which demands your acceptance of it being genuine.

steve


Quote:
On Jul 7, 2014, Art Vanderlay wrote:

I have been studying and performing Elemental Manipulation for many years now, it is something very unique and the effects created are nothing short of miracles. I will be making a DVD demonstrating and teaching some of these effects later on in the year hopefully as I would like to see more people doing this unique branch of magic.

If anyone would like to learn more about this kind of work there are a scattering of books on the subject and I also hold Elemental Manipulation training sessions where I teach you pretty much everything I know on the subject. In fact I am doing one in August at Ilkley Moor.

Kind regards
Art


Since you probably didn`t see this Stephen, you must look at this post from Art.

He suddenly promote a DVD on the subject and a training session, were he will teach everything regarding the subject.

Well, maybe it is all a coincident that this clip was "accidently leaked" just before...

I respect SO many people here (including you Steve), and there are many good ideas to be shared and good products to buy from creators. But we also sometimes have to stand up to people who is obviously trying to deceive us, even if they are our friends.

I normaly don`t react on things that are posted here, but this crossed a limit that made me emotional provoked. Even the first reaction, when the name were reveald with the heartstone I immediately saw it was acting, actually very bad acting. And then the name was in the clouds and it just went from bad to worse. Now it has turned out to be ridiculous, with the DVD, the leak on youtube, and that the hole village could have seen the name in the clouds and more.

Art should say he was sorry for this, and not be remembered for this act.


Agreed fully.
IAIN
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Ok, I will admit this... if it genuinely happened, then I would expect at least a couple of other people seeing it too, and quite possibly taking a pic of it, posting it to social media...i probably would have... but, just because there's a "maybe" - it doesn't make it a fact...

there would be all kinds of variables...

to play's devil's advocate, here's a question..."since when is st**ging NOT a viable option in what we do?"...

if the outcome for the audience is one of wonder, than by any means necessary, surely?
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Stephen Young
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As this type of effect doesn't really suit me it doesn't really affect me either way.
I know that Art is prepared to go to much greater lengths to set up a pay-off than I am.
If there is a way to do this then I'm sure that Art is the type who wouldn't baulk at an extreme amount of work, should it be necessary.

I don't see many "IF this is fake then it's bad form"
I just see people saying they've decided it IS fake and thus Art is a cad and a bounder.

Only Art and Ben know the facts
Until, if ever, I know facts about an effect then I give creators the benefit of the doubt.

steve
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Presumably this qualified as elemental manipulation and "Art" is selling these elemental manipulation weekends and DVD. The video is obviously part of a marketing campaign, as is the name Art Vanderly itself. To pretend otherwise is just rather silly.

Is it stooged? Don't know - but I think it very likely. I can't take an empassioned defence of the effect's plausibility from any third party seriously. Those that have been around can think of the likely 'solutions', they lead overwhelmingly to stooge or alternatives that would make the effect as percieved here overwhelmingly underwhelming.

It does of course reflect very poorly on young Art; as it does on those that are in this thread leaping to his defence. Of course, what goes around comes around and I believe I read Art giving the full weight of his belief to Peter Turners (honest it wasn't a set-up) PIN guess during the Penguin lecture in another thread.

It's really all quite embarassing.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
IAIN
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Stephen Young
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I think there is a difference between "an empassioned defence" and "I don't KNOW it's stooged, so I won't assume it is until proven otherwise"
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