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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Has Peter Turner's material jumped the shark? (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Jamie Ferguson
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I noticed Jinxed received mixed reviews compared to Peter's previous output. A copy is on ebay currently with zero bids and a price tag much less than his other output.

On WMF there is debate around his material generally, some not as glowing as it once was.

A DVD has been on sale here at the Café for 24hrs without any mention about it from anyone.

Has his output jumped the shark?
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Dannydoyle
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Who is Peter Turner?
Danny Doyle
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Tom Cutts
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Do you understand what the phrase "Jumped the Shark" means?
robwar0100
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Had to look it up, but I do know the origin of the phrase "jumping the shark" and what it has come to mean. It was a reference to a Happy Days episode where Fonzie, on water skis, jumped a shark. It has come to mean a gimmick used to hold an audience's attention and/or the point where there is a decline in quality.

Bobby
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Mindpro
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Yes, referring to the downside of something after it has peaked and as a desperate attempt to try to extend or keep something going after it's prime and during its decline. It's become a slang tern for something staying around longer perhaps than it should have while losing appeal or interest.
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So in this case the OP seemed to know.
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Tom Cutts
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Actually, I think the OP doesn't have it right. But if you want to accept the emasculation of the meaning by engaging in the broadening of its meaning to mean, well.. anything you want, then maybe the phrase "jumping the shark" has jumped the shark.

Every lull, every up and down is not a jumping of the shark. I ask you all. Where is the shark? If you can't find the shark, then perhaps there has been no jump. If you are referring to Jinxed as the shark... It sold out from the distributor in a couple weeks. I see nothing there so implausible or pushed beyond believability that it would qualify as "jumping the shark".

Now, if he did readings in a glass box suspended over London for 30 days straight, that might be. Smile
Dannydoyle
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Every lull is not jumping the shark. But it could be, so therefore it is a valid question.

Nobody has broadened the meaning, but rather you are attempting to restrict the meaning.

All that you have managed to point out is perhaps the answer is no. Cool that is a valid position. But obviously the OP knew the meaning of the phrase, and it is a valid question.
Danny Doyle
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Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Nobody has broadened the meaning, but rather you are attempting to restrict the meaning.

Sorry Danny, but the evidence out there doesn't support your claim.
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I am more fascinated by the jumping the shark comments than the OP because I think both Tom and Danny raise good points.

On the one hand, Tom is suggesting Jinxed cannot be guilty of jumping the shark because it sold out. Jinxed did well, consequently, it did not jump the shark. Going back to the Happy Days series, the phrase arose when one of the episodes appeared to be using a gimmick to retain viewers because the series was in decline.

On the other hand, I can see Danny's point in that reviews had been good in the past, and now the reviews appear to be in decline. So, perhaps the marketing/hype/product promotion is in decline and that is the shark?

I will leave it to the two of you to figure out who is right, but thanks for the ride. It has been an enjoyable deviation, and I mean that sincerely.

Bobby
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Mindpro
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I think the jest of the point is that Peter Turners products and the hype surrounding them have seemingly jumped off recently. His stuff is not selling well or for near as much in the Let's Make A Deal section here or on ebay. This combined with the hype that surrounded both Peter and his products initially, I could see where one would consider the jumping the shark statement.

In reality I think that while it is true that he's not getting the premium prices as he did originally, and the hype has definitely died down considerably. I think the reasoning for this is due to a variety of factors, many of which we saw coming and the others that were inevitable.

Peter appealed to a newer, younger, hip generation of kids. Many newcomers to mentalism or magicians attempting to turn to mentalism as part of the bandwagon going by at the time. A newer trend in mentalism. These kids get the most excited, scream the loudest and become the most fanatical in their support. It's not Peter necessarily, this simply is not sustainable. Just ask David or Shaun Cassidy, The New Kids On The Block, Hansen, The Jonas Brothers, Tiffany, soon to be Justin Bieber and so many others. It's an initial wave of something exciting and apparently new to those it's targeted to. However soon these young guys can't afford to keep up with these premium prices, find they can't execute and perform the same material the way Peter does, lose interest, and now they can't even sell it for close to what they originally paid.

This is just the run of the normal cycle. He continues to get some initial wind when something new comes out, or something new happens. However like in all other facets of entertainment, a newer, hotter, cooler, hipper, more trendy train, the "next big thing" will soon come by lofting Peter into a more balanced level that most others before him have come to realize and acknowledge.

This happens worldwide, but no where is more fickle with regard to this than here in the U.S. Terms like "the flavor of the month", have and will always exist.

All of this combined with Peter having such a limited and narrow audience to begin with and a very specified niche within the already small mentalism community, arrives to where it is at. Peter's hit his fan base, some are still with him, some have left, some never got on board to begin with, some that bought into the initial hype became disappointed as it was soon determined for whatever reason he and his stuff was not for them. All of this combines to it settling down to the current level or the jump the shark perspective.

It's nothing against Peter, it's just the cycle, the way of the business.
robwar0100
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7Mindpro,

Not sure if this is valid comparison, but others can decide.

Richard Osterlind was the "king" of mentalism and mentalism DVDs. In an informal survey conducted by Dr. Todd Landman at one of the London Mentalism Meetings (Tabula Mentis), Richard proved to be the most influential mentalist. He came in higher than Corinda and Annemann.

I would venture to say sales of the early DVDs, like Mind Mysteries, are not as robust as they once were, but Richard has pursued other avenues, like going back to writing physical books and dealing more with fundamentals, theory, showmanship and professionalism.

If you think about it, who, in mentalism has been able to continue to rise in stature? Richard is one. Bob Cassidy is another. What about Max Maven? A legend, but he has been relatively quiet. Not entirely sure what the reaction to Nothing was, though Multiplicity is an excellent treatise on equivoque.

You are right in this is something that is hard to sustain. It takes work. It takes effort. It takes long hours. It takes commitment. It takes marketing. It takes traveling. It takes performing. It takes lecturing. It takes creativity. It takes being able to under-promise and over-deliver. It involves a lot.

Coke and Pepsi are among the biggest companies, and they advertise, promote and market everyday.

Even if there is a dip, there is no rule the decline is permanent. When I first started participating in these boards, there was a lot of negative talk about Bob Cassidy and order fulfillment. That is over. He is well-respected, and he is often sought for advice.

Mindpro, I know you have been at this thing a long time and have seen it from a lot of different perspectives, and I appreciate your contributions to our understanding.

Bobby
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Mindpro
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I think you bring up some excellent points. The common thread in everyone you've mentioned is consistency and if they choose they seem to be in it for the long haul. Trendy, fad or different "flash in the pans" as they used to be called approach things differently. They do not have the long-haul mentality. They usually don't set out to make a long term difference or commitment.

Using Peter Turner for a minute, he has said to me and I believe to many others publicly before, that he plans to be out of mentalism within two years. While many suspect it may have been a ploy or plan to push immediate results and justify his higher prices in his products, it created a scurry and aura of limited products, available for a limited time for a guy that is only willing to share for a limited amount of time. Intentionally or not it creates immediate interest and slight frenzy and a manufactured belief that "if they don't jump on it now they may miss the window of opportunity." This of course is not sustainable and usually is not intended to be.

It's worked for Peter. I can't tell you how many guys bought Peter's releases, sight unseen or just because of hype here on the Café and on other forums. Intentional or not, it was a manufactured hype and desire that many bought into. The problem is many of these guys eventually found out that while they like Peter and hwile he performs his material well, that it is not for them - for whatever reason. This I believe is why there are A.) so many products being sold used at a fraction of the price, B.) why these products are not selling (one listed here on the Café, dropped his price $200 overnight and I suspect likely still won't sell), C.) why there seems to be a recent backlash towards Peter and his products, D.) why newer products are lower priced and likely aren't selling as well, and E.) why the jumped the shark perception may be existing.

Taking Richard O. for example, most people know of his commitment to sharing, progressing and teaching the art of mentalism, he and his products have been proven and time-tested which creates credibility, trust and leadership, he and his products come from years of real world in the field true experience, and he and Jim understand the market and create, release and price things directly according to this knowledge. They're in it for quality and the long haul. There is no questionability to their understanding, knowledge and intent. They don't play to trends, fads or temporary bandwagons.

So many things being released today are not created and produced from long-term knowledge and experience. Benji Bruce for example in an attempt to be accepted as a marketing guru did one public show, wrote a book about it, accepted one out of the country booking and writes about it, then all of a sudden is a high-priced coach, mentor, etc. It's not from long term results, it's not from or for mass consumption, it's a kid trying to advance to a level he is not yet at by plastering his name and videos on social media to manufacture a fake buzz and credibility.

The community sees though this and is apprehensive towards these people and these products (except for the kids and trendy newbies). It's simply a business format and foundation that is either real, legit or not. It's time, experience and quality based on these that create the difference and ultimate results. We all have to pick and choose what is best for us. Same for our acts. Most real pros have an act and it is pretty set in stone. It takes something really special, perfect-fitting and form fitting to be added or to replace a current staple. However, today with youtube, social media and or tech, there is this whole new market that operates in the here and now, believes most of what they hear, see or read, and respond impusively. As long as these exist and the trendy stuff continues, this conversation will continue to live on - beyond Peter too.
robwar0100
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You know, Mindpro, if I can call you Mindpro,

I was told years ago that when bank tellers were being trained to detect counterfeit money, they really did not spend much time with fake bills. The thinking was to get very familiar with legal tender, how it felt, how it smelled, how it looked, etc., because by understanding what the genuine article is, they would be able to detect inferior fakes.

As I read your posts, I get the sense I am reading the real deal, the genuine article.

Thanks again,

Bobby
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robwar0100
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Having said that, Mindpro, I expect your posts to jump the shark in the near future!

Bobby
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Mindpro
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Heeeeeeyyyyyy! (thumbs up)
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If Peter Turner did jump the shark, he would guess the shark's pin code whilst doing it.
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