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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » What do we think about? (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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sandsjr
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I think all you have to do is stay one step ahead. Is there a way to execute something where they say, "He couldn't have used that!"?. Let them see why you DON'T use it, then use it.

A magician friend, whom I consider to be amongst the best in the world, recently developed a routine with a joke shop ball and tube. An entertaining, baffling routine for laymen... the same laymen who have probably seen the ball and tube in the magic kit they got for Christmas at one time.
kasper
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I always wondered if a magic shop looked more like an occult bookshop, a shamans den, or a place of wizardry if it would attract more customers. Instead magic shops always look cartoonish toy stores which makes it look as though magic is not to be taken seriously. Ive been out on dates and walked past these stores. That's how the women described these "magic shops" to me.
harris
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Yes and Fox used to do a routine with 7 imp bottled.

What they can't buy is us.

There's gold in the old books, manuscripts and magazine.

Sometime it is sold as new.
I was talking with someone on this forum recalling back when
The Red Green , Blue etc. -books came out in small pamphlets.
Goldstein's that is.
Of course lots came out before that.

Learn principles, sleights and use them in similar and new ways.
This applies to predictions as much as routines that start out with
6 coins cp in your right hand and a visible coin in your left.


Harris
Stepping off his soap box.
and back to his tall 5'5"
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, kasper wrote:
I always wondered if a magic shop looked more like an occult bookshop, a shamans den, or a place of wizardry if it would attract more customers. Instead magic shops always look cartoonish toy stores which makes it look as though magic is not to be taken seriously. Ive been out on dates and walked past these stores. That's how the women described these "magic shops" to me.


And that, I think, is a GOOD thing. What the world needs is fewer magicians and mentalists, and not more being enticed into it every day.
JanForster
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I had dream again... All magicians and mentalists were dead, just me I was still alive...
Jan Forster
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sandsjr
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Google a space-shuttle view photo of the earth. Ask yourself, "How many people down there have ever seen a live mentalist?"

If you polled the 7-billion people, where do you think, "finding a mentalist's secrets" falls on their list of problems to be solved in their lives?
IAIN
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No.3?
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, sandsjr wrote:
Google a space-shuttle view photo of the earth. Ask yourself, "How many people down there have ever seen a live mentalist?"

If you polled the 7-billion people, where do you think, "finding a mentalist's secrets" falls on their list of problems to be solved in their lives?


Too many.
sandsjr
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, IAIN wrote:
No.3?


Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

Too many.




We're polling the people on the green earth, not the green forum.
Syndrome
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, Syndrome wrote:
I think the increase of online opportunities is a good thing for everyone. It has the effect of evolving the art faster. More people buy, more people think, more people invent.


Only those with the eyes to see, will look to this craft closely enough anyway. Being grumpy about the change is a feeble resistance of the inevitable. We are evolving. I can go along with the change or die kicking and screaming to fight it. It's happening whether I/we like it or not. I agree this craft has shifted into some undesirable directions, however, simultaneously, it has been propelled into a much greater and graceful display of what it purports to be...art. This has come at great cost. I owe a massive amount of debt to the new breed of mystery performers. The fact that we (or at least many of us) have truly begun to embrace the theater and mystique we purport to exude (as magicians OR mentalists) is a testament to why I continue to love what I am and what I do.
Live well,
Laugh often,
Love always.

"Illusion is the first of all pleasures." -Voltaire (1694-1778)
DocBenWiz
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2014, Amirá wrote:
Offering magic/mentalism secrets on public spaces has obviously different ethical points of view, but whats the difference of this and read magic books on a local lybrary? Or a open magic shop?
I don't see myself buying a book in modern dance arts because I don't have interest in learning those topics. Normal persons thinks the same.

Some close persons, relatives and friends knows that I publish material for other performers, but they don't buy it.

We are in a digital era where information moves quickly and open. I still believe that our secrets are safe.


Best

The first magic books I eved read, and could afford, were found in my local, very small town library, when I was just 12. Later, when I came to appreciate the five od six books I devoured there, I realized fhat some professional magician, or the executor of his estate, must have donated them in his name. For example, just one was by Bruce Elliot, "Classic Secrets oc Magic" which caused me many "mispent"
hours of my youth in front of the large mirror in my Nana's room trying to master the cups and balls!
I was blessed by that public library treasure I found!
"Pay no attention to that strange man behind the curtain" (it's only "Doc Benjamin from the Amazing Wizardelia Wagon")
Martin Pulman
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Mentalism is being cheapened, trivialised and vulgarised like never before. Our secrets are hawked around in public, years of hard work is stolen and dumped on torrent files and pros have their a*us pixilated on TV in an attempt to pass the first round of a tawdry, amateur talent contest.

If this is evolution, take me back to the primitive days of Berglas and Chan Canasta. They had more theatre and mystique in their little fingers than most of the new breed of mentalists.i
The Forgotten One
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There surely is a lot of bad magicians and bad mentalists but same goes with everything. In sports, there are couple, who take it seriously, couple who have gift for it, couple who suck at it and couple who are just looking something to do. Magic isn't any different. Even if that information would be harder to get, still people who suck at it or use it wrongly (claim to be real physics for example) would be getting their hands on it.
I don't believe that getting the "old days" back would be solving anything at all.
And if there is bad magicians around, it don't take anything away from me or make me to be bad magician. So what is the big deal?

Of course it affect how people see magic. But during old days, there was less magicians, so there were surely less also bad magicians around. But there also was less opportunities to see great magicians. When I was kid, country where I'm living, there was basically 1 famous magician around only. I loved to see magic, but there wasn't internet around, there wasn't magic circles in near town and I saw only 2-3 live shows as a kid. And I couldn't choose, if I like to see coin magician, or card tricks or kid magician... It all was summoning doves and linking rings!

Now days, There are plenty of good magic around! Even if there isn't magician in my town, I can just watch amateur Youtubers and be amazed how many good guys you can find over there!
Of course there are also many negative side effects to see, but I don't like to stare on negative things and start thinking negatively myself. ( And even when people claim how things were better during old days, in fact many things instead are a lot better now days.)
mastermindreader
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What, specifically, is done "a lot better nowadays?" And what is your basis for comparison?
The Forgotten One
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Do I really have to explain this to anyone?

Lets start with this.
Healthcare is more advanced than for example 30-50 years back. How we understand bacteria's are better, how we treat diseases are better than "back in the old days." Our medicine are also developed further. Our surgery is now days more safe than for example 30 years back. Anesthesia drugs are more safe and so on... Isn't this all a lot better than what it was back in your childhood or in times when our grandparents were young?

Lets talk next about education.
Our kids get better education than what we got. They actually are smarter than us. Is this bad thing? Studies proof that teenagers today are smarter than what teenagers were in my childhood.

How about environmental things? We know better how our own ego system work and why there is global warning (sadly, many people still deny it.) We actually could be doing something for it (at least for the part what is happening because of the humans.) How we understand earthquakes and tsunami's develop also. Knowledge is power, and now days there is a lot more and easily available knowledge everywhere.

How about technology? We don't use horses anymore. farmers can actually drive tractor. We can keep our food cold around the year (believe me, country where I'm living some people still talk times before fridge, or even electric lights!)
Right now there is discussion going on about new cooling technology what is better for our environment... Isn't that good thing? Everything develop and we have chance to make things better. There is better technology also for cars and cars develop years after years. They are more safe and they pollute less than for example 10 years back. Is this better or not?

Do I need to continue? Do I need to give anyone more proofs? If I do, I feel sad for them and I do not want to waste my time for them because I believe what ever I say to them, they don't chance their perspective anyway. It would be total waste of time. But luckily, world is big and we all fit here.
A lot of things are a lot better now days than what they were past in our near history as I said. But basically time golden our memories and people like to whine how everything is more bad now days than what it was when they were a kid. (basic psychology..)

Of course some things chance worse, others things chance better, but hey, that is the life. If you like to whine, you die anyway, why bother to do anything at all? I'm not overly optimistic either, but many things are a lot better now days than what they were during "old days"...
How it affect magic? Like I told... There are a lot more magic around us, It is more easily available and we do have discussion forums like this to share our knowledge even over boarders!
There is a lot of things what I think is better now days than how they were for example 20 years back. Of course there is also negative things happening like magic torrents, internet pages what are revealing secrets.. But in my eyes, positive things wins negative things easily. I just don't want to go back at any cost. Instead I want to see what future might give us. Smile

Everything is developing, and I think magic should also develop and be up to date. So I don't see problems if somethings are left in history (where they probably belong anyway.)
mastermindreader
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I'll ask again, a bit more specifically- IN MENTALISM, what, specifically, is done "a lot better nowadays?" And what is your basis for comparison?
The Forgotten One
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I didn't talk specific about mentalism, but instead in general about magic and everything else.
People all the time tell "how things were better when I was kid. cars went faster, ice cream tasted better and cyanide wasn't poisonous for kids," But usually that just isn't true at all.

But what come specific about mentalism... I have to tell you, I have seen only 1 mental effect in live in my whole life. And it was basically mathematics trick. It was magician, who did one mind reading effect, and it was badly done. I was maybe 10 year old and I suffered through it.
For me, mentalism (as you know it) didn't exist before time of the internet. And still, country where I'm living people basically even now days know only 1 mentalist who came here from Usa.

Without internet, without internet shops, without dvd's and youtube, mentalism basically don't exist here at all. It is the modern age what give me opportunity to study mentalism at all. And I believe I'm not alone here. Not everyone is living in big country or in big cities. This also goes for everybody as an audience. Internet give them more opportunities to see mentalism and magic. It don't take anything away from them.
It is our modern technology what give us opportunity to talk about mentalism here over boards. We can ask advises, give tips and learn. We can improve ourselves as artists more easily. It isn't only how mentalism is devepoling, It is also what opportunities our modern times give us.

If we count metal bending, fortune telling and other effects like that as mentalism, then we do have long and colorful history about that in here... Basically all mentalist were gypsy's in that case and they claimed that they had real powers. And people really believed in it. Now days we know they don't have any kind of powers... It is better this way. Or do you think otherwise?
Of course many people still believe in it, what is sad. But even more people would be believing in it if information wouldn't travel so fast.
I like the way how mentalism have developed (from real deal to entertainment). But sadly, even today, it would be here easier to find gypsy who would teach mentalism, than find entertainment mentalist.
In fact, I have seen only that 1 mentalism effect performed by magician. But I have seen many mind readers, who claimed that their powers were real. But now days there isn't those guys too much around anymore (There still are too many!) For me "turning back" would be turning to the time of no mentalism at all... Or atleast it all would be very real (=performed by scammers.)

During 90, we saw people in tv, who claimed that they really can move objects and bend metal... And we did believe in it here. It was "tv mentalism..." well kind of. It wasn't marketed as mentalism, it was marketed as real deal.
It wasn't until month or something like that ago when I saw in Youtube old Tv series about those scammers when I googled their names... And I learnt that they have got busted long time ago (well I knew they aren't real anyway, but I was interested about history and folks who really claimed they are real deal.) They didn't show those tv series in our tv's where they got busted! So I just wonder how many saw them back then and still today don't connect the dots because basically mentalism didn't exist here until that 1 women come from Usa 1-2 years ago.

And as I told before, country where I'm living, we don't still have even single brick and mortar magic shop here. So basically even magic didn't exist in my life before the internet age. Well it was existing, but it was all about doves, tuxedo's, silks and linking rings. Not so much about close up magic, or card magic or anything... It was only one kind of stage magic and that it was. When they aired magic program in tv, it was huge thing for me and really got my attention.

Now days I see a lot more mentalism and magic and many more people have opportunity to study them. In my eyes it is a gift, not a curse. Curse was when information (and books) didn't travel over boarders.

What have done a lot better now days? I cannot answer for that because of two reasons: firstly, I didn't say anywhere that something is done a lot more better in mentalism than back in the old days. And secondly because for me, mentalism (as you know it) didn't exist until 10 years back. But as I said. World develop around us and mentalism and magic should be also developing for modern day needs. It is living only if someone is wanting to watch it. If we get stuck and don't develop new effects, people will lose their interest and get bored (eventually.)

Also, modern inventions give more opportunities for magic and mentalism... gadget's fit in smaller space, they can be better programmed and they are cheaper to manufacture.
Smoke and flame effects develop also more safe to use. Future isn't something what we should be fearing, we should be looking for it and taking it here with open arms because it give us more opportunities, more possibilities.

When I read how people is talking when there is too many magician, It sound to me like they are only fearing that they are loosing their own jobs. For me more magicians mean more entertainers, more different kind of magic, more fun. Something for everyone. No problems here, until you are thinking only yourself, not the others.
When people are talking how too many people know effects and how they are done, it sound little bit like "I have done this same trick over 10 years and now, I have to learn another one to amuse audience?" But for me it is more like a challenge... How I can do it without people knowing the secret... And if too many people are knowing it, it is time to move on. Time to improve our magic (or mentalism!) (Of course there still is place for those tricks, but not with that audience!)

People in this topic talk, how "magic and mentalism were better back then" And I just don't be sure what were better... They talk how modern days are like a curse, because "there is a lot of magic around" or "they know how this trick is done." But at the same time they forget that modern times also make our lives easier as magicians and mentalist. It also give us more opportunities.
How it was better when magic shopkeeper told what effect you should buy? How it was better when you needed to travel hours to nearest shop? How it was better, when your only magic was 2 books in library? I really don't see it at all. Nothing more, nothing less. World around chance, we should accept it and adapt.
sandsjr
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Everything in life boils down to perspective. No perspective is right. No perspective is wrong.
Syndrome
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If I may...I would suggest that the most fundamental asset to our craft has become a lot better...our storytelling abilities have become exceptional since Wonder Words arrived.
Live well,
Laugh often,
Love always.

"Illusion is the first of all pleasures." -Voltaire (1694-1778)
sandsjr
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I accept that Kento... uhhhh.... Syndrome.











I'm jokin man I'm jokin... Smile
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