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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Cube Sum by Gregorio Samŕ (38 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chris
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I have never seen this effect, but I am guessing that if you want to perform this again with a different number you have to exchange one of the dice to a different one. If that is true then the ad is misleading in my opinion.
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IAIN
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Should you be exposing a method so openly?
TuneHV
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The forum rules:


"SPECULATION -VS- EXPOSURE:

It is , after all, only natural to speculate the possible method to a new trick or effect. Comments as to possibilities of a method are just that - Possibilities. One person may say; "I think it might use a piece of velcro" while another may comment; "No, it probably uses a magnet". Either scenario is okay.

However, If someone knows for a fact what the method is and posts it, then we have exposure and the post will be deleted with NO EXPLANATION given."


He admitted he's never seen the effect and speculated how it works, which is fine by the forum rules.
David Jonathan
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IAIN
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A method should not be so freely explained without disguising it in some manner...

fill yer boots though...play your guessing games...
ClungeMagnet
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Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, Chris wrote:
I have never seen this effect, but I am guessing that if you want to perform this again with a different number you have to exchange one of the dice to a different one. If that is true then the ad is misleading in my opinion.


A misleading magic ad!? Say it ain't so!!!
IAIN
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Its semantics, at worst they should not use the term "Immediately", it should say "3 seconds afterwards" or similar...

the problem with the rules is, every single release, I could take a swing at the method, be right, and expose someone's hard work...AND give away methods and techniques that can be searched for...

then I could just say "yeah, I don't have this" as my get out clause...

ridiculous! PROTECT YOUR SECRETS! why not respect the workings of magic...
Paul Gross
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Hello,
Having had this I can try to answer your questions. The video demo online on our website www.hocus-pocus.com is 100% correct. There is nothing left out or edited. This can be presented in two ways. The first is as you see in the demo. You can predict the total number without ever looking at the cubes. The other presentation is done as an instant add effect. This would be where the performer turns around and in a second tells the spectator the correct total with merely a glance. I personally feel the first presentation is stronger.

To answer another question..The total will be different if repeated.The learning curve on this is minimal. In other words it can be perfromed immediately after you read the instructions without fail.It really couldn't be easier.

You are supplied with the cubes, velvet drawstring bag and complete instructions. This is something that anyone who purchases it will carry and do all the time.

We have had this items for several weeks here at Hocus Pocus. We have sold out both times and have more on their way which should be here by the end of this week or sooner.

I hope this helps..Please feel free to contact me direct at sales@hocus-pocus.com or by phone Toll Free 1-800-407-4040

Best regards
Paul Gross
Owner
Hocus Pocus
Best Regards,

Paul Gross

Owner

http://www.hocus-pocus.com
twistedace
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I received it and am very happy with the method. You can instantly name the number without looking at the dice if you desire there is no fishing. I think the instant add is stronger actually. There is some MINIMAL handling if you want to repeat with a different number but any novice would be able to do the necessary work. Overall, it is a strong effect. The dice are extremely well made. The effect is so easy, I was able to do it within minutes of taking it out of the box. I just have to build a presentation now.
Chris
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Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Its semantics, at worst they should not use the term "Immediately", it should say "3 seconds afterwards" or similar...

the problem with the rules is, every single release, I could take a swing at the method, be right, and expose someone's hard work...AND give away methods and techniques that can be searched for...

then I could just say "yeah, I don't have this" as my get out clause...

ridiculous! PROTECT YOUR SECRETS! why not respect the workings of magic...


Iain, since this is a very important issue for the magic industry, I would like to explain my point of view clearly. I think I also understand where you are coming from. I am a retailer as well as magic publisher/author/creator. So I straddle the various roles in the magic industry. And I fully understand and respect the role of creators and their ability to make a living and sell their products.

But I am also a consumer advocate. I hate it when people are being ripped off. Unfortunately it happens too often in magic. By this I don't mean that this trick described in this thread is a rip-off. No, I actually think it is a great trick and can stand on its own merit without the need to mislead in the ad.

If one takes the position of no clue to the method should be given, then I can sell you a simple force, switch, or stooge, or pre-show work, or whatever as the most unbelievable miracle. I think this is wrong. That is why as a retailer I try to be very upfront and often do include details of the method like:

- requires a gimmick
- uses dual reality
- doesn't work 100%
- requires a force
- requires sleight of hand
- requires a stooge/assistant
- etc.

In some cases I have described the method completely. And you know what? Sales were higher than for similar products by the same author. My explanation for this is that most magicians appreciate a candid and clear description. Particularly if you take this trick as an example. I mean who would go through the trouble to make their own dice? Maybe some would, but the majority will buy the trick if they like it, regardless of if they know the method or not. I try to treat my customers fairly and as adults. There are so many great effects and tricks to choose from. It is not necessary to mislead in an ad. And leaving things out is misleading. If there is a switch (I don't know if there is in this case) then it should be mentioned. Otherwise a statement like "can be handed out for examination" is mute, because I can always switch a gimmicked part out before I hand it out. Or 'can be repeated with different results' would also be pretty meaningless since one could always switch it out for a differently made version.

So you see that by leaving out these crucial parts in a method one can sell old hats over and over again. In my opinion that is wrong. It is misleading. Of course, I understand it is not always possible and not always fair to reveal details of the method. Nobody asks that the numbers on the dice are being revealed in the description. Nobody asks to hear about the details of the mental calculations or memorizations necessary if any. But it should be mentioned if there is memorization or if there is mental calculation or if there is a switch, a stooge, preparation, etc.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
geggy
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Nice post Chris, solid thinking, so easy to over hype. This Cube Sum is intriguing, good reviews so will buy soon. Promised myself the next purchase would Not involve cards. This is fitting the bill nicely.
Gaz Lawrence
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Maybe a great effect but the worst performance I have ever seen on a demo . Whoever got this guy to do the demo needs their head testing from a marketing point of view IMO .
Gaz Lawrence
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Tell me he is the creator lol
JackMagic
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Quote:
On Aug 8, 2014, Chris wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Its semantics, at worst they should not use the term "Immediately", it should say "3 seconds afterwards" or similar...

the problem with the rules is, every single release, I could take a swing at the method, be right, and expose someone's hard work...AND give away methods and techniques that can be searched for...

then I could just say "yeah, I don't have this" as my get out clause...

ridiculous! PROTECT YOUR SECRETS! why not respect the workings of magic...


Iain, since this is a very important issue for the magic industry, I would like to explain my point of view clearly. I think I also understand where you are coming from. I am a retailer as well as magic publisher/author/creator. So I straddle the various roles in the magic industry. And I fully understand and respect the role of creators and their ability to make a living and sell their products.

But I am also a consumer advocate. I hate it when people are being ripped off. Unfortunately it happens too often in magic. By this I don't mean that this trick described in this thread is a rip-off. No, I actually think it is a great trick and can stand on its own merit without the need to mislead in the ad.

If one takes the position of no clue to the method should be given, then I can sell you a simple force, switch, or stooge, or pre-show work, or whatever as the most unbelievable miracle. I think this is wrong. That is why as a retailer I try to be very upfront and often do include details of the method like:

- requires a gimmick
- uses dual reality
- doesn't work 100%
- requires a force
- requires sleight of hand
- requires a stooge/assistant
- etc.

In some cases I have described the method completely. And you know what? Sales were higher than for similar products by the same author. My explanation for this is that most magicians appreciate a candid and clear description. Particularly if you take this trick as an example. I mean who would go through the trouble to make their own dice? Maybe some would, but the majority will buy the trick if they like it, regardless of if they know the method or not. I try to treat my customers fairly and as adults. There are so many great effects and tricks to choose from. It is not necessary to mislead in an ad. And leaving things out is misleading. If there is a switch (I don't know if there is in this case) then it should be mentioned. Otherwise a statement like "can be handed out for examination" is mute, because I can always switch a gimmicked part out before I hand it out. Or 'can be repeated with different results' would also be pretty meaningless since one could always switch it out for a differently made version.

So you see that by leaving out these crucial parts in a method one can sell old hats over and over again. In my opinion that is wrong. It is misleading. Of course, I understand it is not always possible and not always fair to reveal details of the method. Nobody asks that the numbers on the dice are being revealed in the description. Nobody asks to hear about the details of the mental calculations or memorizations necessary if any. But it should be mentioned if there is memorization or if there is mental calculation or if there is a switch, a stooge, preparation, etc.


This is very good point

You only have to look at mark mansion if you ever see him at a convention he will openly tell you the secret to every item he sells , his thought on this he would rather sell you something you are going to use than sell you a piece of junk

He once told me he was convinced he sells 100% more by this approach and the fact he has given out the secret does not affect his sales at all !
twistedace
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I like Mark Mason's approach. I strongly feel he is one of the absolute best demonstrators in magic! Sometimes the ingenuity of the gimmick helps to sell the item itself. We all love toys. There is not a gimmick with this effect. The creator reall thought this out. Like I said, to get a different number you have to do a very basic, beginner's move. I can't give away more since I'm not the creator and it's not my place. This effect will be good as a lead in to another effect. I'm thinking of using it to lead into the cube root of large numbers.
Xcath1
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I don't have the trick. If this is a simple as all sets of different colors add up to the same number wouldn't even a semi curious spectator figure this out? If it's more complicated than this then good effect for the price and I'm in
TuneHV
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Why have them throw the dice? It makes no sense to have them do that, then say change the dice so all the colors are different. That is completely unjustified and not a motivated move. You are basically telling your spectator to eliminate the randomness of the dice throw.

I think its much stronger to present the dice, show the numbers/colors, indicate that the same color has a different number on each die (thats a key point), then have them arrange the dice in any selection they like with different colors, and proceed with the revelation from there.

I don't own this, but I'm assuming this handling would work based on whats been dicussed. With this approach, the spectator will feel they have complete control over everything.
David Jonathan
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More Info: www.davidjonathanmagic.com
Gaz Lawrence
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Quote:
On Aug 9, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
Why have them throw the dice? It makes no sense to have them do that, then say change the dice so all the colors are different. That is completely unjustified and not a motivated move. You are basically telling your spectator to eliminate the randomness of the dice throw.

I think its much stronger to present the dice, show the numbers/colors, indicate that the same color has a different number on each die (thats a key point), then have them arrange the dice in any selection they like with different colors, and proceed with the revelation from there.

I don't own this, but I'm assuming this handling would work based on whats been dicussed. With this approach, the spectator will feel they have complete control over everything.



Totally agree with the above post
IAIN
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Chris - my base point stands, I don't think the rules of latest and greatest are at all fair to creators...i wouldn't do it, but I could technically watch every demo posted, and because I don't own it - take a good swing at it...

but by doing so, I would be revealing all too much, I would name methods, techniques, ideas - all unedited, searchable, indexed by google and so on...and though I may not "hit" on that particular demo, I may accidentally reveal a previously published one...

and that's not fair...

*please don't read any of that or what follows in a sarcastic/angry tone*

how would you feel if I took a guess at two releases from Lybrary and got bang on? and what if it affected sales negatively? and what happened if I kept on doing it with others? just seems wrong, very wrong (to me)...

as for this product - I think people forget that in magic and mentalism you need your own routines and thoughts - you need to work on your creativity and mental processes to tinker with a base idea...

the demo isn't a performance, its a demo just to show how things are...

the dice in question are ungimmicked, its repeatable, different numbers every time, and there's a small process you can do if you want to show people what would have happened if they had turned the dice over to differnt colours...

its fair, the amount of skill is minimal, with playing around with the dice I found a very, very easy way to do what's needed if you wanted to do one or two trial runs with people (which will indirectly solve all of the so called problems people have mentioned above)...

these are tools...if you cannot think of a logical reason to use such interesting looking dice, don't buy it! that's not the creator's fault! there is absolutely ZERO complicated "anything" involved with this...

to do it ONCE, the advert is 100% correct...
to repeat, it takes maybe one or two brain cells to work out how (and it even gives you ways of doing it in the instructions)...
Chris
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Iain, you and anybody else have my permission to try to guess or speculate about any of the products I sell on Lybrary.com. Be my guest. Speculate about them as much as you want. Actually, I would like to encourage you to do so. Really. No joke. I am inviting you to do that. Not only do I think it is fair, it is your good right to do so. And don't worry that sales would be negatively impacted. They won't.
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IAIN
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Its still not the right thing to do...and its not wise to name methods and techniques so openly...

it costs money, and takes a great deal of effort to learn them and put them to good use - why should I then throw those terms and uses around so freely on an open and searchable forum?
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