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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Better newspaper tear (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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robert_baxt
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Hollywood, CA. USA
85 Posts

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Dennis,
I'd like to remind you and all the readers of this forum that as previous writers to this forum have already pointed out (among them the esteemed Bill Palmer) that Gene Anderson's Tear is Al Koran's method, written up in Lewis Ganson's book "Routined Manipulations" published over 40 years ago. Gene admits this in his manuscript, and Gene's main change was replacing the Koran method, a bent sheet of metal, with his wire gimmick.
My method also is based on the Al Koran method (though an extremely faster set-up), and does not use the Koran bent metal sheet or the wire gimmick that Gene came up with; therefore I felt no need to ask his permission. BUT, I DID SAY WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT HIM REPEATEDLY, OVER AND OVER, IN THE INSTRUCTIONAL DVD TO MY TRICK! That's because I'm a nice guy.
Dennis, you don't seem like such a nice guy because you accuse me of not having permission from Gene that I did not need. And further proof of your nature may be that you manufacture and sell chop cups. It's generally agreed that chop cups were invented by magician Al Wheatley who performed as "Chop-Chop", an asian magician. DID YOU ASK PERMISSION FROM AL WHEATLEY OR HIS ESTATE WHEN YOU MADE YOUR CHOP CUPS? Did you at least say nice things about him in your instructions as I did about Gene?
I didn't think so.
The morals for today:
¥ People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
¥ Pots calling kettles black should have their facts straight.

This is all I have to say on the matter. I do have a life, and have no more time to spare lecturing you Dennis on this subject. For those who are interested, Dennis made similar unfounded claims on the Genii Forum a few months back. I wrote a long response there to which Richard Kaufman the publisher of Genii wrote: "Considering the unsubstantiated claims made by Dennis Loomis, and the clearly made points by Robert Baxt, I consider the matter closed."
I do too. I will give no further comments.

Robert
Jay Elf
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Elite user
463 Posts

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Hello, magicians.

I personally know Robert, and have joined his wonderful lecture. I have never heard that magicians and acquaintances speak ill of him except Mr. Loomis. Robert is the guy who knows and is trusted.
steve_seguin
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London, Ontario
70 Posts

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Has anyone tried using the method supplied with "No Tear" for actually tearing the newspaper? For my first few attempts, the supplied gimmick was not strong enough to hold two full pages of newspaper.

I'd love to hear from someone that is actually using this method.

Steve Seguin
London, ON
Jim Wilder
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Birmingham, AL
954 Posts

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Quote:
On 2004-10-22 23:24, steve_seguin wrote:
Has anyone tried using the method supplied with "No Tear" for actually tearing the newspaper? For my first few attempts, the supplied gimmick was not strong enough to hold two full pages of newspaper.

I'd love to hear from someone that is actually using this method.

Steve Seguin
London, ON

In my experience, I could not tear two full sheets using "No Tear" and have it work. Also, in my experience, "No Tear" is good for what it is marketed to do; show a few pieces and then magicially they become one paper. It is a good product for the price.

I have purchased 6 different routines/methods for this effect and researched a few more. By far I have found Baxt's version to be the most practical and effective for my performances. I use "Better Newspaper Tear" doing street work and have found it too, to be most reliable.
Jim
ostadler
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Munich, Germany
59 Posts

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Hello all,

I have to agree to Jim. I also bought Baxt's tear and its really great. The supplied gimmick is quite strong and when performing the trick you are absolutely on the safe side. I also have the "No tear" gimmick and I couldn't get it to work with this routine.
One very important aspect with Baxt's tear IMHO is the teaching DVD. This DVD has been extremely usefull to me and to be honest this justifys the price.
Also I had some questions after I bought the trick and Robert immediately helped me, so you also get a great support (THANKS Robert!).
And for crediting Gene (which was extensively discussed here on the forum): I can see nothing wrong with Baxt's version, there is so much crediting of Gene on the DVD you can nearly call it a "celebration" Smile
Now lets put it together: You will get a set of great gimmicks that will last a life-time, a great instructional DVD and also support if any questions are left. I wish every magic effect would have these features....

Greetings from Munich,
Oli
Mike Powers
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Inner circle
Midwest
2886 Posts

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I second the motion for Bill Goldman's routine. It is in one of the "Bar and Grill" manuscripts. It's a no-tear where you can hand out the paper at the end. Very cool and practical.

BTW - didn't Bauer re-invent a method already published or in use??

Mike
Dennis Loomis
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1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
To Robert Baxt,
I agree that it's time to put this to bed. I do however, feel that I need o respond to your comments about me. I did not say that you are not a nice guy. I don't know you, and I'm willing to accept that you probably are. I think you made a mistake in not getting Gene's permission. But it was nothing more. Heck, Bob, I didn't even say that you needed it... I just said that you didn't have it. But, I want the readers of the Café to know that my comments were not unfounded. I've been a close friend of Gene Anderson for over thirty years and I have it directly from him that you did not either ask or notify him in advance. You yourself know that to be true. It was not meant as an "accusation." It's a simple matter of fact. And anyone that wants to know how he feels about your paper tear can visit http://www.25offmagic.com On this site, Bill Nagler quotes from an email he got from Gene: "in dr anderson 's words, “baxt takes the effect to lower ground, yielding a torn and restored where you are ripped off both financially and theatrically.”

If anyone still believes that my clain that Baxt did not have Gene Anderson's permission is false, then they can contact Gene, or his friends Tony Chaudhauri or Bill Nagler. If you read Baxt's response, you'll see that he does not deny it. He does claim that he didn't need it. That's another argument and who knows... maybe he's right. I never said that he did. But, he did use Gene's name and picture over and over again in the Instructional DVD that came with his trick. Why Bob?

Chops cups have been in magic's public domain for many years. They have been manufactured by dozens of reputable magic dealers. And while I am Jim Riser's partner, what I contributed to the project was my micro chop cup ROUTINE. I do not personally manufacture them. Jim Riser approached me because he knew of my routine and suggested this venture. It is true that my company does sell the Riser Micro Chop Cups with my routine. But how many other magic dealers sell Chop Cups? I suspect that almost every one sells some kind of Chop Cup. You're kicking a very dead horse here, Bob, and I'm confident that the readers of the Café know that.

However, I apologize if I offended you. You made one mistake and do not deserve to be crucified for it. I shall not bring it up again, except to respond to any attacks on me.
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
Chris Gold
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Hello,

I've been reading this forum carefully; and Dennis Loomis just said "Chops cups have been in magic's public domain for many years." Okay, I'll buy that, but then newspaper tears have been around longer than chop cups. So that makes newspaper tears in the public domain too! So Robert Baxt needed no permission from Gene Anderson who didn't get permission from Al Koran, but each did the right thing in giving credit.

What's Dennis Loomis' problem?
Chris Gold
TS Entertainment INC
Hollywood, CA
Dennis Loomis
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1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I said before that it is probably best to put this to rest. I am going to PM Chris Gold and answer his question directly. If any of the rest of you are interested, PM me and I'll do the same for you.

Just a reminder that on October 21 I posted in this thread a message that was approximately 150 words long Only the last 7 words had anything to do with Robert Baxt. And they were, a simple statement of fact. Not meant to be an accusation or indictment. In my post, I mentioned the excellent Joel Bauer Trade Show Newspaper Tear, which I don't believe had been mentioned before, and also briefly plugged the as yet unreleased Chuck Mignosa Tear. Only as an aside, in clarifying something about the Mignosa version, did I mention Baxt.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
Dennis Loomis
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1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I would like to address the comments that a couple of people have made about the Anderson paper tear and flashing. Without exposing anything, I'd like to suggest that there are two reasons that some performers do occasionally flash at the moment of the restoration. First, many do not completely set up the paper the way Gene instructs in his book and on his VHS/DVD. There some some little "fussy" additions that you make to the restoration p****t. Those of you who do this probably know what I'm talking about. They are there specfically to help the flashing problem. If you get "lazy" and leave them out, you are more likely to flash.

Second: if you read Gene's instructions carefully, you know that the paper should not be made fully performance ready until just before the performance. If you have the p****t folded up in the gimmick for several hours, the paper will not unfold quickly enough and completely enough to avoid flashing.

Finally, like any magic trick, you must practice. Performers differ considerably in the level of technical proficiency they have with any particular trick or move. It may be that you got a flash watching a poor performance. To give you another example, have you ever witnessed a manipulator doing the Multiplying Billiard balls or Gold balls and get a flash of the s***l? Of course. I think we all have. Is it the fault of the trick? Of course not.

Doug Henning thought enough of the Anderson Paper
Tear to use it in virtually every live performance he did.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
JJP161
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Columbus, Ohio
509 Posts

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Hoes does the Osterlind signed newspaper tear compare with the methods mentioned above?

Joe
Brad Jeffers
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A review of Baxt's newspaper tear is in this month's Genii (or is it MAGIC?). Anyway, the gimmick used is exposed, with Baxt's permission. It sounds like a good idea to me.
On another note, what is the newspaper tear done by Lance Burton in his dove act? It's the same one that Neil Foster used to do.
Richard Osterlind
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Dennis is correct about the subtleties in the Anderson tear. Without them, you lose the "camouflage" that adds so much.

I believe the Sydini tear is the one Lance uses. At least, that is what Johnny Thompson uses and he was Lance's mentor.

My tear is designed to look like the Slydini tear with the addition of the signature and giving back the paper at the end.

All are great methods and all serve well in different situations.

Richard
JJP161
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Columbus, Ohio
509 Posts

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Mr. Osterlind,

Thank-you so much for your input it is greatly appreciated and certainly an honor to have your insights.

I am very much looking foward to learning your newspaper tear.

Joe
Richard Osterlind
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Thanks Joe.

I have to tell you one other idea that I have used very often and is so much fun!

For this you will need the Slydini newspaper setup, a duplicate paper (all crushed up) and a realistic toy gun! The gun and the crushed paper are in your case.

I come out and do the tear. After the applause (hopefully!) I say, "I often wonder if you people have been really fooled or if you are just applauding to be polite and really think you know how this was done! So tonight I am going to take a little poll"

With that you turn and go into the case WITH BOTH HANDS! You pick up the gun with one hand and exchange the paper with the other. Then you turn towards the audience with the gun and say, "If there is anyone who thinks they know how I did that, please stand up!" The sight of the gun is startling and so funny! The audience bursts out laughing and after a few minutes I say, "NO? OK then." Then I casually toss the paper to a nearby spectator and continue. The misdirection of the gun is so funny that everyone forgets the paper was out of sight and it later becomes another real mystery!

Richard
Decomposed
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Eternal Order
High Desert
12001 Posts

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Thanks Richard. Great for my kids shows:)

Just kidding!
Ron Reid
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Inner circle
Phoenix, Arizona
2733 Posts

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Hello Richard:

That is very good! Are you giving others permission to use the gun bit? If so, I'd like to add it my routine.

Thank you.

Ron Reid
Dennis Loomis
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1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
Richard, I love your idea with the gun. Funny, yes, but that's the misdirection for the dirty work.

The paper Tear that Lance Burton does is the Neil Foster Center Tear. Lance has added the burning business to the trick, but other than that... it's Neil's. I think you can still buy this from Abbott's. It's the one I did before learning the Anderson tear.

If searching around for this, remember that "Center Tear" is a term for a mentalist's strategy of the same name. Don't be confused. You're looking for the Neil Foster Center Tear.

By the way, one of the best center tears for mentalists is by our friend Richard Osterlind. It's explained on his series of L & L DVD's... which you should really have in your library.

Denny
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
Werner G. Seitz
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Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Neil Foster Center Tear brings up memories..

Way back, must have been in the late 1950s,maybe 1960/61, I bought my *copy* from the german dealer W. Geissler-Werry..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Decomposed
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Eternal Order
High Desert
12001 Posts

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Can "No Tear" by Tony Stevens be used with any newspaper (pieces)? I know it begins with the paper torn but I would like to show "The National Enquirer" at the finish (plenty of one liners there).

THanks
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