The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Russian roulette (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
I am aware that there are other threads on this but I have not yet got an answer.

If I want to do a Russian roulette type effect, what is the best method to use considering both safety and organicness (if you were genuinely doing it through mental techniques then what it would look like)

Dan
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
What to you mean by Russian Roulette? Actual Russian Roulette or the highly popular, and overdone, smash and stab routines that have flooded the market over the past several years?
phillsmiff
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1615 Posts

Profile of phillsmiff
Are you talking about method or presentation? Because you use the word method, but then in brackets ask what it would look like?
Presentation talk happens here, method talk happens in Inner Thoughts.

Phill
-+: https://www.mythologycodex.com :+-

A collection of incredible jaw-dropping mentalism, now available.
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, phillsmiff wrote:
Are you talking about method or presentation? Because you use the word method, but then in brackets ask what it would look like?
Presentation talk happens here, method talk happens in Inner Thoughts.

Phill


Sorry I re-read the question and I understand that the wording is totally wrong

I mean to ask two separate questions

1. If you recommend an effect on the market, which is best?

2. I want you to consider what a real stunt like this would look like
phillsmiff
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1615 Posts

Profile of phillsmiff
I always felt that 'proper' Russian Roulette routines (of the kind Bob mentions) are rather distasteful, partly because of the prevalence of firearm suicides (in the US at least - over here the routine wouldn't even be on the table). Personally I'd hate to think I was glamourising the act of putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger, similarly it would worry me that someone in the audience might have lost a friend or relative that way. I want everyone to enjoy the show.

That's just my opinion of course - I actually thought Derren's Russian Roulette routine was a remarkable bit of television, but I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

Phill
-+: https://www.mythologycodex.com :+-

A collection of incredible jaw-dropping mentalism, now available.
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
What to you mean by Russian Roulette? Actual Russian Roulette or the highly popular, and overdone, smash and stab routines that have flooded the market over the past several years?


Firstly I am not speakimg about using a gun. Secondly I do not want to do the smash and stab that is on every mentalism show I have ever seen. I was looking for a similar type effect (one that puts a danger element into the show) but with a difference. e.g. Cookie cutter by Dan Sperry. I apologize if I am not making my point entirely clear.
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, phillsmiff wrote:
I always felt that 'proper' Russian Roulette routines (of the kind Bob mentions) are rather distasteful, partly because of the prevalence of firearm suicides (in the US at least - over here the routine wouldn't even be on the table). Personally I'd hate to think I was glamourising the act of putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger, similarly it would worry me that someone in the audience might have lost a friend or relative that way. I want everyone to enjoy the show.

That's just my opinion of course - I actually thought Derren's Russian Roulette routine was a remarkable bit of television, but I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

Phill


Once again I apologize for my wording. I live in the UK and I 100% agree with what you just stated. I have absolutely no intention of using a gun in my show. Maybe Russian roulette was the wrong term for the title
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
17842 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Thing is though, you're asking for "different", yet also published stuff - so if you want something that's different and not used by anyone else...its the hard road of discovery and coming up with something yourself...

if you reduce the thing itself down to its core ingredients, and then build it back up and have some fun with it, then you may well come up with something that a) suits you b) works well...
phillsmiff
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1615 Posts

Profile of phillsmiff
Gotcha. I'm not a huge fan of those effects, not because they are inherently bad but because I haven't seen one done to my taste I suppose.

My own feeling is that, whatever the routine, something that is usually neglected whenever a magish creates the illusion of danger is the realistic support that would be required if failure was a plausible option. You need to think about what medical supervision would be required, what physical first aid resources you would need to have to hand, how it affects your insurance, what will happen to the rest of your show etc. You need to use the bluff of your preparation for failure to communicate to the audience that it is a realistic possibility. Ask yourself what the ramifications of failure would be and then roll that all in to the presentation. You want the audience to be broken out of the format almost and to think "Wow he's really going to do this? For real? This is something special." It can really build the effect into something powerful and memorable as opposed to most smash and stab routines which are shallow and forgettable (not to mention overdone). Don't play it as a throwaway bit.

Phill
-+: https://www.mythologycodex.com :+-

A collection of incredible jaw-dropping mentalism, now available.
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Thing is though, you're asking for "different", yet also published stuff - so if you want something that's different and not used by anyone else...its the hard road of discovery and coming up with something yourself...

if you reduce the thing itself down to its core ingredients, and then build it back up and have some fun with it, then you may well come up with something that a) suits you b) works well...


You know, I can't believe I never thought of that. I suppose it is a scary prospect creating a dangerous effect and attempting to make a completely safe yet UN-obvious method.

Thanks for your advice
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, phillsmiff wrote:
Gotcha. I'm not a huge fan of those effects, not because they are inherently bad but because I haven't seen one done to my taste I suppose.

My own feeling is that, whatever the routine, something that is usually neglected whenever a magish creates the illusion of danger is the realistic support that would be required if failure was a plausible option. You need to think about what medical supervision would be required, what physical first aid resources you would need to have to hand, how it affects your insurance, what will happen to the rest of your show etc. You need to use the bluff of your preparation for failure to communicate to the audience that it is a realistic possibility. Ask yourself what the ramifications of failure would be and then roll that all in to the presentation. You want the audience to be broken out of the format almost and to think "Wow he's really going to do this? For real? This is something special." It can really build the effect into something powerful and memorable as opposed to most smash and stab routines which are shallow and forgettable (not to mention overdone). Don't play it as a throwaway bit.

Phill


Play big, I get you and I love it. This is the exact reason that Derren Brown's Russian roulette is unforgettable and Keith Barry's was... Well... meh

If the realistic possibilities are believed then you have a great effect, I feel like it takes a great acting performance as well from the performer to seem genuinely worried of the possibility of failure.

Thanks for your help

Dan
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
17842 Posts

Profile of IAIN
I did used to have one, using brass tacs and tictacs...was fun, but overall...just never sat comfortably with "me"...
Jamie D
View Profile
Inner circle
Ontario, Canada
2292 Posts

Profile of Jamie D
I did this for years and just stopped doing it about a year and a half ago as everyone was doing it. The best way? To use the simplest method which comes from the classic literature. I've used many different methods but classics are classics for a reason. I know there are always debates on the subject but I will just be honest and from experience, the method is in what you should already have.
Twitter @darjames
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, danbastianelli wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
What to you mean by Russian Roulette? Actual Russian Roulette or the highly popular, and overdone, smash and stab routines that have flooded the market over the past several years?


Firstly I am not speakimg about using a gun. Secondly I do not want to do the smash and stab that is on every mentalism show I have ever seen. I was looking for a similar type effect (one that puts a danger element into the show) but with a difference. e.g. Cookie cutter by Dan Sperry. I apologize if I am not making my point entirely clear.


Got it. But keep in mind that "Russian Roulette" specifically refers to a game played with a gun or guns.

But here's my objection to all such effects (and keep in mind that I performed Russian Roulette for many years in my own show):

Why would a performer put his life or health in danger for entertainment purposes?

And if it actually IS as dangerous as it looks, how do some performers manage to do it every night (with an extra matinee on Saturdays) without ever being injured? That's totally illogical. As a one-off stunt it would be at least plausible- as a regular feature it is simply unbelievable.
AH
View Profile
New user
17 Posts

Profile of AH
This style of routine doesn't neccasarily have to be dangerous for it to be interesting. Bank night could be deemed as a variation, there's still risk, but to the performers money, not the performer. It can still be theatrical and interesting to watch, especially if you shred or burn the envelopes. It's your presentation and build up that make these effects entertaining. You have to bare in mind some audiences can be uncomfortable with what they perceive as genuine danger in front of them, it's safer and more fun to play up a large scale bank night routine. Put some thought into how you want the audience to feel during this routine, if you want it to be bigger and more exciting, work out something big and exciting, you can do this without seeming to be putting yourself in danger. However if danger is your thing, I have performed an acid test Russian roulette in the past which works well. PM me if you need any direction.

Regards
AH
danbastianelli
View Profile
New user
75 Posts

Profile of danbastianelli
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, AH wrote:
This style of routine doesn't neccasarily have to be dangerous for it to be interesting. Bank night could be deemed as a variation, there's still risk, but to the performers money, not the performer. It can still be theatrical and interesting to watch, especially if you shred or burn the envelopes. It's your presentation and build up that make these effects entertaining. You have to bare in mind some audiences can be uncomfortable with what they perceive as genuine danger in front of them, it's safer and more fun to play up a large scale bank night routine. Put some thought into how you want the audience to feel during this routine, if you want it to be bigger and more exciting, work out something big and exciting, you can do this without seeming to be putting yourself in danger. However if danger is your thing, I have performed an acid test Russian roulette in the past which works well. PM me if you need any direction.

Regards
AH


This is also a great point. I'm now thinking along the lines of shredding envelopes with one containing borrowed money. This might make quite s good effect
Jamie D
View Profile
Inner circle
Ontario, Canada
2292 Posts

Profile of Jamie D
^^^ which would be more of a bank night routine.
Twitter @darjames
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Yes, it would make a great effect. In fact it IS one. (The shredding idea has been used by many.) But it's not the type of effect you asked about originally.
IbiMania
View Profile
Regular user
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
108 Posts

Profile of IbiMania
I do one for my friends with a vodka shot and water in glass. It has a comedic element to it. They know I don't drink and try hard to make me land on the vodka. And it isn't as dangerous.

I have done with Billets and numbers in them, where one of the number belongs to an ex who I would never want to talk to. (Of course I exaggerate the "Risk" XD) again this is something I do for friends.

Edit: forgot to mention, I call every number except the last billet standing.

I have NEVER done the roulette plot for an actual show, it does not feel right.
C.J.
View Profile
Inner circle
There's a lotta rambling in my
2367 Posts

Profile of C.J.
Quote:
On Jul 24, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:

And if it actually IS as dangerous as it looks, how do some performers manage to do it every night (with an extra matinee on Saturdays) without ever being injured? That's totally illogical. As a one-off stunt it would be at least plausible- as a regular feature it is simply unbelievable.


Can I just play Devil's Advocate for a second, Bob? What of the famous Kreskin "Find the cheque" routine then? Taking into account the audience's inability to discern "doing it for real" and doing it by sneaky trickery, doesn't your above sstatement make Kreskin's routine illogical and unbelievable? After all, the danger of losing his money is never realised.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Russian roulette (11 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL