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RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
I know you were sandsjr,

Enjoyed your links. Well, enjoyed maybe not the appropriate term! Music was my first love( I feel a terrible song coming on!) but any musician who cared about their credibility wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near those talent shows.

And I don't think you can really compare music to mentalism. Mentalism is on TV so infrequently that it behoves performers not to cheapen its image when they get a chance to perform it for that wider audience. Just my opinion. You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.


If the performer does it well in that 90 seconds it may actually help increase the popularity of the art which can only help others who perform it. I do not watch much TV, no time, but AGT is a very popular show whether you like it or not. If a chance was granted to help you catapult to the top in 90 seconds, you would be pretty stupid not to try. Though I do think an initial try-out without being filmed and aired on TV should occur so to weed out the one's that would not do the art justice.

RNK
Martin Pulman
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[quote]On Jul 30, 2014, pourang65 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 28, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 28, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 28, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Every time some fame hungry wannabe tries to shoehorn a "mentalism" routine into a 90 second slot on an amateur TV talent show, a little bit of the art dies.


Mentalism is not more valuable or better than any other form of art, singer, dancer etc. Our art is for entertainment and I agree with Bob, we may not like what the artists do but AGT is essentially pro as it is in France.


It may have ended up as a chance for semi-pro singers and cabaret acts to increase their booking fees, but that was not the original intention. When it was first conceived as 'Paul O'Grady's got talent' it was intended to do for amateur variety acts what 'The X Factor' had done for amateur singers. Then they found out that Britain didn't actually have enough talent for a full series!

And I don't think mentalism is a better art form than singing, dancing, comedy etc. But no singer, dancer or comedian who wanted to be taken seriously would touch it with a barge pole. Nor should any mentalist who cares about the art.
mastermindreader
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Terry Fator might disagree with you. After his win on America's Got Talent, he eventually signed one of the biggest entertainment deals in Las Vegas history.

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On October 14 and 15, 2007, after winning America's Got Talent, Fator took the stage of the Las Vegas Hilton (formerly the International, the same stage that Elvis Presley performed on for many years). Both shows were sold out to standing room only. Another show was added for December 3 to satisfy the demand for tickets.

In early December 2007, Fator signed a contract for $1.5 million with the Las Vegas Hilton to do three shows a month from January 2008 to May 2008. Fator also performed a 6 p.m. early family New Year's Eve show on December 31, 2007.

In 2007, Fator became an official supporter of Ronald McDonald House Charities and is a member of their celebrity board, called the Friends of RMHC.[18]

On March 17, 2008, Fator appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show along with American Idol Judge Simon Cowell. To the amazement of Oprah, Cowell referred to Fator as one of the "two most talented people on the planet." Fator performed with three of his dummies; country singer Walter T. Airedale performed a Garth Brooks song and Winston the impersonating Turtle sang a Bee Gees song. Julius performed a Marvin Gaye song; Julius was a favorite when he appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show.[8] "As soon as I brought out Julius, she had this look on her face, wondering what I was about to do," Fator said.[8] "Once I started into Marvin Gaye, she fell out of her chair."[8]

On May 13, 2008 it was announced that Fator had signed a five year, $100 million contract to perform nightly at The Mirage in Las Vegas.[19] He replaced headliner Danny Gans and the theater was renamed the Terry Fator Theatre. Reportedly, Fator's deal is one of the largest entertainment deals in Las Vegas history.[20]


Full article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Fator
Joe Atmore
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Quote:
On Jul 30, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

But no singer, dancer or comedian who wanted to be taken seriously would touch it with a barge pole. Nor should any mentalist who cares about the art.


Martin:
Have you ever been to Las Vegas? Without a doubt, AGT holds major cache with the audience. You can't go into a single hotel without seeing signage for the various theatrical shows of every type. And the common theme is "as seen on AGT." Personally I really don't understand your negativity towards the show.

That may not be your road to success, but I don't think knocking it for others is the way to go.
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Martin Pulman
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Well, I hadn't actually heard of Terry Fator before, but he appears to be a ventriloquist with a singing puppet. Exactly the sort of act that BGT and AGT were designed to find. Dance troops, plate spinners, vent acts, tramp acts, eccentric dancers, magicians. All perfect for a talent competition. I don't happen to believe mentalism belongs in that company.

Quote:
On Jul 30, 2014, Joe Atmore wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 30, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

But no singer, dancer or comedian who wanted to be taken seriously would touch it with a barge pole. Nor should any mentalist who cares about the art.

Martin:
Have you ever been to Las Vegas?.

Sadly, yes. Smile
mastermindreader
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On Jul 30, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Well, I hadn't actually heard of Terry Fator before, but he appears to be a ventriloquist with a singing puppet. Exactly the sort of act that BGT and AGT were designed to find. Dance troops, plate spinners, vent acts, tramp acts, eccentric dancers, magicians. All perfect for a talent competition. I don't happen to believe mentalism belongs in that company.


Did you bother reading the article I posted? Fator's appearance on AGT led to the biggest contract in Las Vegas history? He's a LOT more than a
"ventriloquist with a singing puppet." He's one of the most gifted and talented impressionists in the world. He as also a full-time pro, not a semi-pro as you are now dismissively referring to AGT acts, LONG before he went on the show.

I'm no longer wondering why so many believe that mentalists are often seen as "elitists."

Personally, I'd perform in Hades if it let to a long term contract headlining at the Mirage. Whatever your personal opinion about Las Vegas, it remains the entertainment capitol of the world.
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Quote:
On Jul 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Personally, I'd perform in Hades if it let to a long term contract headlining at the Mirage. Whatever your personal opinion about Las Vegas, it remains the entertainment capitol of the world.



Smile
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Martin Pulman
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Yes Bob, I read your article. I watched the video. I'm not sure you actually read my reply:) The guys looks as if he is massively talented. I'm delighted he is making the big bucks and wowing them in Vegas, but he found a suitable outlet for his specific act. Indeed, a friend of mine performed his impressionist act on a UK talent show and is now one of Britain's most succesful TV impressionists. I supported him all the way and thought he was doing exactly the right thing. But nothing will convince me that mentalism should be crammed into a 90 second slot on a TV talent competition. We clearly just have a fundamentally different view on the art form.
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So, if you were booked to be on a highly rated television talk show which could garner you great publicity, and since they are live, they needed to cut your segment to 2 minutes (which does happen) - you would walk away rather than do a quick effect.
Best Thoughts,

Joe Atmore
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sandsjr
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Martin, in an effort to help, (I'm not piling on) I propose you stop and ask yourself the following 2 questions:

1. In what way do those shows affect me (not the art) personally?

2. What can I do to affect the art in an opposite way to how I perceive it is being affected by shows like GT.

All you can do is answer the questions honestly, then take action on question 2. That's it.

With all due respect, complaining or feeling bad about "what is" won't help you in any way, unless you are looking for a reason to make a career change.
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On Jul 30, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
We clearly just have a fundamentally different view on the art form.


No. I just think we have a fundamentally different view about judging others' decisions.
Martin Pulman
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Sorry mastermindreader, this is nothing to do with my propensity to judge other's decisions. And it is a shame you have decided to characterize it as such.

I simply don't believe mentalism is best served by people cramming effects into a 90 second slot to try and impress celebrity judges on a Simon Cowell talent show. No different than my belief that the art is not best served by hobbyists performing effects on youtube. Both cannot help but reduce mentalism to the level of 'tricks'. Which I think is harmful overall. And if that makes me an "elitist", I'm proud to be one.
mastermindreader
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You wrote:

Quote:
But no singer, dancer or comedian who wanted to be taken seriously would touch it with a barge pole. Nor should any mentalist who cares about the art.


That's not dismissive or judgemental? By your reasoning Terry Fator (singer and comedian) doesn't want to be taken seriously. And any mentalist who performs on AGT doesn't care about the art.

Seems pretty judgmental to me.
Martin Pulman
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There may be a cultural difference between the UK and the US. In the UK Cowell's talent shows are seen as being part of a reality TV craze that isn't particularly held in high esteem (I know people who have worked on them and they don't hold them in high regard) And it is simply a fact that if you wished to be taken seriously as a musician, professional dancer or stand up comedian, no reputable agent or management company would advise you to go anywhere near those shows. It is obviously different if you are a comedy impressionist/ventriloquist. That is the only vehicle out there for such spec acts and they can be crammed into 90 sconds at a push. But on the whole such shows cater for entertainment that is less sophisticated than I believe mentalism to be.
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As an aside, over here with the whole talent show thing...i hate the way they focus on the people with very apparent mental health issues, and parade them out in the first couple of episodes - not in a healthy "everyone is equal" kinda way, but just for very cheap jokes and general ridicule... I've even complained a few times and got very glib responses...over here, the first few episodes are just modern day carnie freakshows, but without the camaraderie and care amongst the performers...

i think though, it takes big brass ones to put yourself up for such a show...so if only for that - good luck to 'em for going for it...you never know where it might lead...
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RNK
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On Jul 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
As an aside, over here with the whole talent show thing...i hate the way they focus on the people with very apparent mental health issues, and parade them out in the first couple of episodes - not in a healthy "everyone is equal" kinda way, but just for very cheap jokes and general ridicule... I've even complained a few times and got very glib responses...over here, the first few episodes are just modern day carnie freakshows, but without the camaraderie and care amongst the performers...

i think though, it takes big brass ones to put yourself up for such a show...so if only for that - good luck to 'em for going for it...you never know where it might lead...


I do agree IAIN. Pretty sad humor IMO. But- seems like in today's society that's what sells- seeing people making a fool of themselves which is just ignorant. Though, as you stated- hats off to those who have the courage to try.

Also- Bob- I so agree with you (how about that, lol!) Seems Martin is being very judgmental- I have never seen or heard (since I don't have the time to watch much TV) a magician or mentalist just go on the show to make a fool of themselves like some do. Besides the one I did see- Psycho Jack- and I think he was just very unprepared. They know this could be their big break. Just as it was for Drew Thomas. Drew was one of the first Magicians to make it to the final rounds of AGT in the early years of the show. I had a chance to speak with Drew at a corporate gig where I performed 4.5 hours of strolling magic and he headlined the night with a 30 minute stage show. At the end of the night we were talking and Drew stated to me how is career took off after AGT. And he didn't even win! This is proof that AGT is great PR to help boost your career. BTW- Drew was one of the nicest and most helpful magicians I have ever met.

RNK
Martin Pulman
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RNK, how brave of you to agree with Bob. Smile But let's be clear. I made no comment on magicians appearing on talent shows. Magic and mentalism are two related but distinct fields. Magic lends itself to situations that mentalism doesn't - table hopping for one. I don't believe magicians performing magic on talent shows hurts magic in the slightest.

Iain, I quite agree with you. The way Cowell exploits clearly vulnerable people on those shows for his personal gain is, to be polite, unfortunate.
RNK
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On Jul 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
RNK, how brave of you to agree with Bob. Smile But let's be clear. I made no comment on magicians appearing on talent shows. Magic and mentalism are two related but distinct fields. Magic lends itself to situations that mentalism doesn't - table hopping for one. I don't believe magicians performing magic on talent shows hurts magic in the slightest.

Iain, I quite agree with you. The way Cowell exploits clearly vulnerable people on those shows for his personal gain is, to be polite, unfortunate.


My thoughts (post) was also directed towards Mentalists. It's a chance for one to get the break they need whether a magician or a mentalist. No difference. It's great exposure.

RNK
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I think AGT can serve a great purpose in the visibility, advancement and promotion of one's act or career. It does add credibility and having network exposure is a great thing to have in your corner. (The problem is many don't know or understand how to capitalize on it).

Perhaps there is a difference in cultures, but pertaining to perception and diminishing the art of mentalism, I would be more concerned with guys on your side of the pond taking mentalism to the streets and into pubs, diminishing mentalism to nothing more than street/pub tricks and small performances. This is damaging the art more than any AGT or BGT as far as I'm concerned and it is also what is getting metalism more diretcy linked to magic in the eyes of audiences.
IAIN
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I think that's too broad a brush stroke...but I'm biased...

A bad performer is a bad performer, no matter where they do it...
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