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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Rogue on AMERICA'S GOT TALENT (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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RNK
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On Jul 31, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
I think AGT can serve a great purpose in the visibility, advancement and promotion of one's act or career. It does add credibility and having network exposure is a great thing to have in your corner. (The problem is many don't know or understand how to capitalize on it).

Perhaps there is a difference in cultures, but pertaining to perception and diminishing the art of mentalism, I would be more concerned with guys on your side of the pond taking mentalism to the streets and into pubs, diminishing mentalism to nothing more than street/pub tricks and small performances. This is damaging the art more than any AGT or BGT as far as I'm concerned and it is also what is getting metalism more diretcy linked to magic in the eyes of audiences.


Interesting point Mindpro. So are you saying that mentalism should only be performed in a Parlor or Stage setting?
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
I think AGT can serve a great purpose in the visibility, advancement and promotion of one's act or career. It does add credibility and having network exposure is a great thing to have in your corner. (The problem is many don't know or understand how to capitalize on it).

Perhaps there is a difference in cultures, but pertaining to perception and diminishing the art of mentalism, I would be more concerned with guys on your side of the pond taking mentalism to the streets and into pubs, diminishing mentalism to nothing more than street/pub tricks and small performances. This is damaging the art more than any AGT or BGT as far as I'm concerned and it is also what is getting metalism more diretcy linked to magic in the eyes of audiences.


You cannot seriously be suggesting that someone like Peter Turner performing his mentalism in real world locations like pubs and streets is diminishing mentalism while some kid magician cramming his store bought mentalism effect into a minute and a half to try and impress David Hasslehoff is promoting mentalism's image?

I mean. Seriously?
RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
I think AGT can serve a great purpose in the visibility, advancement and promotion of one's act or career. It does add credibility and having network exposure is a great thing to have in your corner. (The problem is many don't know or understand how to capitalize on it).

Perhaps there is a difference in cultures, but pertaining to perception and diminishing the art of mentalism, I would be more concerned with guys on your side of the pond taking mentalism to the streets and into pubs, diminishing mentalism to nothing more than street/pub tricks and small performances. This is damaging the art more than any AGT or BGT as far as I'm concerned and it is also what is getting metalism more diretcy linked to magic in the eyes of audiences.


You cannot seriously be suggesting that someone like Peter Turner performing his mentalism in real world locations like pubs and streets is diminishing mentalism while some kid magician cramming his store bought mentalism effect into a minute and a half to try and impress David Hasslehoff is promoting mentalism's image?

I mean. Seriously?



I will agree with Martin regarding Peter Turner. That is why I asked the previous question to Mindpro. FYI Martin- David no longer is part of the panel.
sandsjr
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On Jul 31, 2014, RNK wrote:
FYI Martin- David no longer is part of the panel.


Well that changes everything! Smile
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I have to agree that BGT is perceived very differently than AGT. BGT is regarded by many to be nothing more than a vehicle to parade unfortunates in front of a panel of judges who will put the most appalling acts through to the next round knowing these acts have absolutely no chance of winning. Why do they do this ? Comic content and the hope that folks will keep watching in the hope that these underdogs will actually win. Say what you like about Cowell but he certainly knows how to make money. Asit happens here in Spain there is a performer who now advertises himself as ''never been on Britain's Got Talent'' it really does have a bad reputation in the UK. I think the AGT show must be better received in the USA because most in the UK treat BGT as a joke, I onlyposted this because I think the perception between the two shows could be why some folks are disagreeing.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
sandsjr
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Do those who win BGT go on to have lucrative careers generally?
Martin Pulman
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On Jul 31, 2014, sandsjr wrote:
Do those who win BGT go on to have lucrative careers generally?


Oh yes! Pudsey the dancing dog, winner of the series before Colin McLeod's entry, has been a judge on Britain's Top Dog Model on ITV2, and has just starred in a movie.
Peter Bradshaw of The Guardian called the film "so depressingly bad that cinemas should play the adagietto from Mahler's Fifth over a loudspeaker as audiences file out grimly into the foyer afterwards, silently asking themselves if life has any value... Watching this movie, I was overwhelmed with three emotions: boredom, embarrassment and chiefly shame on behalf of everyone involved, shame that something so shoddily made and mediocre could ever have emerged from our film industry." Writing in The Observer, Mark Kermode said "nothing can explain (or excuse) the sheer skull-scraping ugliness of this relentlessly tacky Britain's Got Talent spin-off."

Get your book tests and billets ready boys. Auditions for series 9 are starting soon.
sandsjr
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So no legit successes come from BGT? It's an honest question, I seriously don't know.


By the way Martin, you sound a little upset. Smile
Magic.Maddy
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AGT usually has genuine talent. Sometimes it's strange, and sometimes they put people through for their story, but 80% actually have talent.
Mind Guerrilla
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I believe I understand the concern here. These shows threaten to expose magic tricks...as magic tricks! Smile But this should only be a concern to someone trying to pass himself off as the real deal. Surely, nobody here does that. Smile

And now, behold the latest degradation to the ART... a two-man mentalism act performing a one-man routine!



Pulling the discussion back to the original post: Does anyone know what the deal with Rogue is?
sandsjr
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So it's similar to AGT. In fact isn't Simon Cowell involved in both?

Posted: Jul 31, 2014 11:47 am Mind Guerrilla, I don't see why you would call that a degradation to the art... I thought they did a terrific job. They got Howie to change his mind twice. Anyone else might have given up.
mastermindreader
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As a mentalist, I've never felt the least bit threatened by the show, although I will concede that I, personally, would be very reluctant to appear on a competition show of any kind as it simply wouldn't suit my stage persona and back story. Nor do I believe that I could show my abilities to their best advantage in an AGT-type format.

But that's just me. I wish nothing but the best to those who choose to follow their own paths.
Mindpro
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On Jul 31, 2014, RNK wrote:
Interesting point Mindpro. So are you saying that mentalism should only be performed in a Parlor or Stage setting?


While I know it will not be a popular opinion here with the kids, UK guys and the onslaught of magician-turned-mentalist, yes, I believe mentalism is best suited for the stage in front of an engaged audience. This movement to reduce, minimize or diminish mentalism to a street or smaller level works against what mentalism is, stands for and has been established as for generations.

Entertainment that is smaller is always trying to be adapted to play bigger. Look at AGT & BGT, the judges are always talking about getting the acts to "play bigger", fill the stage and play to the entire audience, so why on earth would anyone want to reduce something that can play so big and strong to something less? I don't buy the argument that it plays more personal. If you want personal, great, do readings. They can be personal and impactive.

Just by the nature of mentalism as a performance art, it encompasses many things - drama, comedy, theater, suspense, amazement, a cooperative interactiveness, mystery, unbelievabilty, beliveability, peaks, valleys, mass appeal, and it being unrelated to other types of art, unique...this is meant for the stage.

I believe if mentalism would be presented as more of the mental arts that the magic arts this would be more easily understood by those trying to change it or reduce it. Look at the mental arts - memory, hypnosis, etc. Hypnosis is fine one on one but it's true appeal, impact and mass entertainment value is when it plays as performance art on a stage. Mentalism is the same way.

Forget about the tricks, slights, moves and methods, but rather the stagecraft and entertainment value, mentalism is made for the stage and anywhere less is lacking some of its total attributes.

Nothing against or taken way from Peter Turner or others, but to me the true test of their abilities of mentalism would come from what they can do with it on a stage in front of an entire audience. Otherwise stick to personal readings. Just my own opinion.
mastermindreader
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I think the rise of "close up mentalism" runs parallel to the ever increasing number of hobbyists and amateurs trying to add mentalism to their repertoires. The problem is that these performers work primarily for friends and family, where the illusion of mentalism is nearly impossible to achieve.

I agree that mentalism is most effective when performed for paying audiences in a theatrical, night club, or platform setting.
sandsjr
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I believe it all boils down to the performer no matter the venue, big or small. Like Iain was saying, "A bad performer is a bad performer, no matter where they do it..." I'll take it a step further and say A good performer is a good performer, no matter where they do it. I think mentalism is most effective when performed by a great mentalist and less effective when it's not. However, the setting certainly does play into the psychology of the experience.
Mindpro
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On Jul 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I think the rise of "close up mentalism" runs parallel to the ever increasing number of hobbyists and amateurs trying to add mentalism to their repertoires. The problem is that these performers work primarily for friends and family, where the illusion of mentalism is nearly impossible to achieve.

I agree that mentalism is most effective when performed for paying audiences in a theatrical, night club, or platform setting.

Of course this too is also why the majority of this newer breed of mentalists or magicians-turned-mentalists mostly choose teh NLP, body language, behavior premise rather than the psychic mentalist.

Posted: Jul 31, 2014 12:58 pm Also seems many of these newer guys don't really actually have a show in the true sense of the word, but rather effects or "cool things they can do" or several "little somethings I can do (or let's try is likely more accurate)" which they perform.
IAIN
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I'm happy doing my own thing, in my own way...each to their own and everyone is entitled to their own opinions... Some of them make me feel a little sad/demoralised, but maybe that's frustration on my part...
I've asked to be banned
mastermindreader
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On Jul 31, 2014, sandsjr wrote:
However, the setting certainly does play into the psychology of the experience.


That is absolutely true. A formal setting conveys the impression of expertise and professionalism. My act is far more powerful, for example, on a theatrical stage or night club than it would be if I performed the exact same thing as an extra added attraction at a Chuck E. Cheese birthday party.
sandsjr
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[quote]On Jul 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2014, sandsjr wrote:
extra added attraction at a Chuck E. Cheese birthday party.


Good afternoon folks. Welcome to Chuck E. Cheese, my name is Bob. It's nice to see all of you here today.
IAIN
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So basically, its being said "go pro - or go home"? and it has to be stage or its not proper mentalism?

its great that everyone who works very hard and does things in the way they feel is right and proper gets treated so fairly... and everyone else is a bit of a joke, and to be battered over the head because they don't have the title "full-time working pro"?

not everyone who isn't a full-timer is an idiot, and nor do they deserve to be lumped in with them either...
I've asked to be banned
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