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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The risk to mentalists and the brilliance of Derren Brown's disclaimer. (39 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Suffolk- That's really why Charlie Reynolds and I once agreed that there really is no such thing as "amateur (meaning hobbyist) mentalism."


Oops! That's 90% of the Penny contributors struck off the roll-call! Smile
Suffolk
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On Jul 29, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Suffolk- That's really why Charlie Reynolds and I once agreed that there really is no such thing as "amateur (meaning hobbyist) mentalism."


Oops! That's 90% of the Penny contributors struck off the roll-call! Smile


Only 90%???
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Suffolk- That's really why Charlie Reynolds and I once agreed that there really is no such thing as "amateur (meaning hobbyist) mentalism."


Oops! That's 90% of the Penny contributors struck off the roll-call! Smile


Yes, but it's the amateurs which keep the art financially viable.

As a boy I would spend every Saturday at the magic shop. One of the regulars was Big Al, a giant of a man with huge hands. Al was a full time postman. I don't believe that he ever performed professionally in his life. But he did some of the best sleight of hand that I have ever witnessed.

Guys like him kept the magic store afloat.

How many people do you think will perform TT out of the couple hundred that laid out three long ones? My guess is, not many.

Best wishes,


Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
mastermindreader
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But, then again, sleight of hand with cards, coins, etc. IS something that is well suited to hobbyists, amateurs, AND professionals.

And, as I've said many times before, the actual illusion of mentalism can really only be created before an audience of strangers. That's not so with magic.

You're right, though, amateurs tend to keep many creators in business.
Martin Pulman
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It would certainly be interesting to see what would happen if the professionals refused to sell any of their books or effects to anyone BUT fellow professionals! I wonder why they don't? Smile
mastermindreader
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If that were the case, neither you nor I would have been able to purchase and learn from, the works of Corinda or Annemann, or ANY of the other sources that provided us with the tools to become professionals in the first place.

Maybe that's why.
sandsjr
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Besides, it's not the guitar, it's the guitarist.
mastermindreader
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I have no problem with creators selling their works, but I, for one, have never created anything that would be particularly useful to the "buy it today, perform it tomorrow" crowd. (But you can see plenty of examples of that daily in "The Latest and the Greatest.")
Scott Soloff
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Every front has a back.

It wasn't so long ago that magicians and mentalists kept their secrets closely guarded. And, it is true that a certain mystique was the result.

That was the front. The back was that innovation was terribly stifled.

Today is the opposite. Magicians and mentalists both perform in jeans and t-shirts. They stroll around at bars and shopping malls. Practically any secret that you can imagine can be found exposed on either Youtube or the internet.

Agreed, it is a sad state of affairs.

However, the back is a revolution of innovation. There exists at present more creativity and variations and original thinking than ever before. Some of it is even quite lovely.

And, the bottom line is this. Most people that I perform before have never seen a live mentalist. And, truth be told, the exposure hasn't harmed my performance one bit.

They still gasp, jaws drop open, they thoroughly enjoy the performance and talk about it long after the show.

In the long run, where's the harm (except to our vision of what should be)?

Best,


Scott
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sandsjr
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The truth is, with a tiny bit of creativity you could use exactly the same thing that has been exposed and no one would know it.
IbiMania
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Derren Brown once said that he used to tricks always hasting towards the ending, the punch line and in one of his shows a man at a table said something like "I saw so and so trick from a man 20 years ago, it was great" and from then onward he started approaching magic with the goal of making each effect memorable for a 20 year period for the person he did it for....then he ended up doing shows like the apoclypse (but lets pretend that never happened XD )
IbiMania
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On Jul 29, 2014, sandsjr wrote:
The truth is, with a tiny bit of creativity you could use exactly the same thing that has been exposed and no one would know it.


True story.
I would explain how I used a classic move in a completely different situation but this is the upstairs.
Suffolk
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On Jul 29, 2014, Scott Soloff wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Suffolk- That's really why Charlie Reynolds and I once agreed that there really is no such thing as "amateur (meaning hobbyist) mentalism."


Oops! That's 90% of the Penny contributors struck off the roll-call! Smile


Yes, but it's the amateurs which keep the art financially viable.



Financially viable for who? Magic traders not people performing the art.

I don't make a dime from selling effects. The only one I've ever released was a defensive move because someone on here had seen me do it on TV and was bragging about how he'd backwards engineered it and was going to release it. I have since withdrawn it from sale having made my point about ownership. I make my living by actually performing mentalism.

While many excellent performing mentalist also retail that's what selling tricks is: retailing not mentalism. Selling tricks has the same relationship with "the art" that designing engines does with driving formula one cars.

I don't mean this is a harsh way but if all the magic stores closed down tomorrow the only difference it would make to me as a professional practitioner of the art is that an even higher percentage of the very few props I buy would have to be custom made than are already.
mastermindreader
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And if all the shops and creators shut down, the art would stagnate.

I've always made just about as much creating, lecturing and writing as I have performing.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that, for me, lecturing and writing is "performing" as well. (I always aim to entertain, whether the audience is the lay public, magicians, mentalists or whoever.)
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
And if all the shops and creators shut down, the art would stagnate.

I've always made just about as much creating, lecturing and writing as I have performing.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that, for me, lecturing and writing is "performing" as well. (I always aim to entertain, whether the audience is the lay public, magicians, mentalists or whoever.)


Thank you!

Best,

Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Sensio
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Suffolk- That's really why Charlie Reynolds and I once agreed that there really is no such thing as "amateur (meaning hobbyist) mentalism."


I believe that one exception to this would be the "lie detector" persona since this can definitely be developed and cultivated from someone that spends the appropriate time and effort.
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dave_matkin
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On Jul 25, 2014, innercirclewannabe wrote:
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On Jul 25, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I've never used a disclaimer except for one time when I was told that I had to. And they will probably never ask me to use one again. Smile


Yes, that was a classic story! What a great play on words. Smile


Where can I read more about this? Sounds like a great 'story' Smile
mastermindreader
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Here's what happened:

I was booked to play "Monday Night Magic" in New York City. Just before my set, I was advised by Jaime Ian Swiss that it was the policy of MMM that all mentalists must give a disclaimer at the beginning of their acts in order to assure the audience that nothing they were seeing was real.

I, of course, have always thought that such disclaimers are ridiculous and that any audience who goes to see a magic/variety show in a theater should at least have a clue that what they are watching is simply entertainment.

But I did as requested and, at the beginning of my act said:

"Just before the show I was advised by the management that I must make a disclaimer regarding what I do. So here it is- What you are about to see is unreal."
Martin Pulman
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Brilliant! That reminds me of the story of the newspaper that printed a headline "50% of used car dealers are crooks". When forced to print a retraction by the local car dealers association, they printed: "50% of used car dealers are not crooks."
dave_matkin
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Smile Smile Smile Smile

Nice made me smile a lot. Thanks Bob!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The risk to mentalists and the brilliance of Derren Brown's disclaimer. (39 Likes)
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