The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Corinda (16 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7
Scott Soloff
View Profile
Special user
Philadelphia, PA
960 Posts

Profile of Scott Soloff
Thank you. Smile
'Curiouser and curiouser."
sandsjr
View Profile
Special user
835 Posts

Profile of sandsjr
Quote:
On Aug 4, 2014, Engali wrote:
...talent is overrated , that people can in fact learn how to be better performers, and, more importantly, having an anxiety issue is NOT indicative of a lack of "talent", of not being "cut out" for mentalism" and does not *necessarily* speak to their ability to do well in mentalism.


Engali, in what way is talent overrated?

I agree, having an anxiety issue is NOT indicative of a lack of "talent", of not being "cut out" for (insert occupation). A perfect example is Van Cliburn. He had to stop touring for a long period because of his nerves. You're not going to find too many pianists in the history of the world who are as talented as he was.

However, my opinion FWIW, if you are considering going into a field and must seek professional help to take the first step, you might reconsider. That's all I'm saying. Now, if you are IN LOVE with what you want to get into, GO FOR IT! Yes a person can overcome. In fact, those are the kind of stories that make me very happy to hear about.

I still disagree with your idea of failing on purpose. I don't think that's the answer. But it's just my opinion. Try it and tell me how it works out. I think a better idea would be to join Toastmasters as I stated in another post.

Talk is talk though. So like Nike says, JUST DO IT!
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...if you're lucky, you get some on the philosophy behind that particular person's persona/performing criteria, you tend to not get many stories in the field as it were either...you get some, but not many...

i have access to enough "stuff" already, I think lectures in how to raise yer game, how to take the next step, agent vs no agent, managing the advertising side of it all...that's what would make conventions and so forth a bit more interesting...


That's because the vast majority of people that go to conventions aren't really interested in that aspect of their hobby. In terms of the business side it's really only pros that care about tax, PRS, PLI, etc and there are so few of them (there is a Facebook group for genuine professional mentalists to discuss this kind of thing that requires proof of status to get in. It has five members.......

I absolutely agree that lectures on stagecraft, persona etc would be tremendous value at conventions but again, in the world of mentalism at least, there are very few people qualified to lecture on the topic and very little appetite from the average convention attendee.

Of course persona & stage craft is of very little use if your main audience is your friends and the folk down the pub. What you need is a steady stream of new tricks.

Based on what my experience tells me verses what I've seen lecturers say, I would stake my mortgage on the percentage of lecturers I've seen at mentalism conventions who perform more than three stage shows a year in a ticketed public (I.e. Non magic club/magic world associated like The Magic Castle) venue at less than 20%. Real world experience is thin on the ground.

I've just remembered another convention I attended run by Gary Jones which was about doing corporates.
There were three lectures:

Chris Dugdale did a talk on the psychology of the performer which was moderately useful.

Marc Paul did a proper grown up presentation (which I believe you can buy a DVD of) on how to launch a trade show business which was outstanding.

Seth Kramner & Michael Bailey both lectured some tricks and told some anecdotes about corporate bookings they had. Which was of little use.


The latter two lectures were the most popular with the attendees though. Of the ones I know/knew none of them went on to become pros. Quelle Suprisè.
The same guy who sits at the front row of every UK lecture with his glasses on a chain asking far too many questions was there, obviously. You know who I mean.
He represents a caricature of the average conference attendee. They go because for them it's fun and it's their hobby.

Michael Bailey
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
Quote:
On Aug 4, 2014, Suffolk wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...if you're lucky, you get some on the philosophy behind that particular person's persona/performing criteria, you tend to not get many stories in the field as it were either...you get some, but not many...

i have access to enough "stuff" already, I think lectures in how to raise yer game, how to take the next step, agent vs no agent, managing the advertising side of it all...that's what would make conventions and so forth a bit more interesting...


That's because the vast majority of people that go to conventions aren't really interested in that aspect of their hobby. In terms of the business side it's really only pros that care about tax, PRS, PLI, etc and there are so few of them (there is a Facebook group for genuine professional mentalists to discuss this kind of thing that requires proof of status to get in. It has five members.......)

I absolutely agree that lectures on stagecraft, persona etc would be tremendous value at conventions but again, in the world of mentalism at least, there are very few people qualified to lecture on the topic and very little appetite from the average convention attendee.

Of course persona & stage craft is of very little use if your main audience is your friends and the folk down the pub. What you need is a steady stream of new tricks.

Based on what my experience tells me verses what I've seen lecturers say, I would stake my mortgage on the percentage of lecturers I've seen at mentalism conventions who perform more than three stage shows a year in a ticketed public (I.e. Non magic club/magic world associated like The Magic Castle) venue at less than 20%. Real world experience is thin on the ground.

I've just remembered another convention I attended run by Gary Jones which was about doing corporates.
There were three lectures:

Chris Dugdale did a talk on the psychology of the performer which was moderately useful.

Marc Paul did a proper grown up presentation (which I believe you can buy a DVD of) on how to launch a trade show business which was outstanding.

Seth Kramner & Michael Bailey both lectured some tricks and told some anecdotes about corporate bookings they had. Which was of little use.


The latter two lectures were the most popular with the attendees though. Of the ones I know/knew none of them went on to become pros. Quelle Suprisè.
The same guy who sits at the front row of every UK lecture with his glasses on a chain asking far too many questions was there, obviously. You know who I mean.
He represents a caricature of the average conference attendee. They go because for them it's fun and it's their hobby.

Michael Bailey
Rolyan
View Profile
Special user
I'm fencing in my land; so far there are
579 Posts

Profile of Rolyan
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...if you're lucky, you get some on the philosophy behind that particular person's persona/performing criteria, you tend to not get many stories in the field as it were either...you get some, but not many...

i have access to enough "stuff" already, I think lectures in how to raise yer game, how to take the next step, agent vs no agent, managing the advertising side of it all...that's what would make conventions and so forth a bit more interesting...

There was a lecture at the Northern Magic Circle Convention several years ago on exactly that, the business side of table hopping. it was called 'Table Hopping with both feet On The Ground'. It was all about the business side, how to run the business, close the deal, increase fees, approach tables, etc etc etc. Apparently it was as well received as those by John Archer and Greg Wilson!

Those types of lectures (and the accompanying lecture notes) are very few and far between, but seem to go down REALLY well when used. I only wish more convention organisors would do them, the attendees certainly seem to like them.
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
Apologies. Writing this on an iPhone has made my above post look weird. It should read:

Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...if you're lucky, you get some on the philosophy behind that particular person's persona/performing criteria, you tend to not get many stories in the field as it were either...you get some, but not many...

i have access to enough "stuff" already, I think lectures in how to raise yer game, how to take the next step, agent vs no agent, managing the advertising side of it all...that's what would make conventions and so forth a bit more interesting...


That's because the vast majority of people that go to conventions aren't really interested in that aspect of their hobby. In terms of the business side it's really only pros that care about tax, PRS, PLI, etc and there are so few of them (there is a Facebook group for genuine professional mentalists to discuss this kind of thing that requires proof of status to get in. It has five members.......

I absolutely agree that lectures on stagecraft, persona etc would be tremendous value at conventions but again, in the world of mentalism at least, there are very few people qualified to lecture on the topic and very little appetite from the average convention attendee.

Of course persona & stage craft is of very little use if your main audience is your friends and the folk down the pub. What you need is a steady stream of new tricks.

Based on what my experience tells me verses what I've seen lecturers say, I would stake my mortgage on the percentage of lecturers I've seen at mentalism conventions who perform more than three stage shows a year in a ticketed public (I.e. Non magic club/magic world associated like The Magic Castle) venue at less than 20%. Real world experience is thin on the ground.

I've just remembered another convention I attended run by Gary Jones which was about doing corporates.
There were three lectures:

Chris Dugdale did a talk on the psychology of the performer which was moderately useful.

Marc Paul did a proper grown up presentation (which I believe you can buy a DVD of) on how to launch a trade show business which was outstanding.

Seth Kramner & Michael Bailey both lectured some tricks and told some anecdotes about corporate bookings they had. Which was of little use.


The latter two lectures were the most popular with the attendees though. Of the ones I know/knew none of them went on to become pros. Quelle Suprisè.
The same guy who sits at the front row of every UK lecture with his glasses on a chain asking far too many questions was there, obviously. You know who I mean.
He represents a caricature of the average conference attendee. They go because for them it's fun and it's their hobby.
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
17816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
I thought that guy was some kind of audience interactive spectre...
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
New act. Right there Smile
Davidzajac
View Profile
New user
63 Posts

Profile of Davidzajac
Here's an update. I've now performed several times. They were all great. Thanks for all the support from this forum. P.s. My one friend who I met in a coffee shop couldn't stop laughing historically he said that's scary good. And it's because of all you wonderful mentalist that I have elevated what I do from tricks to something greater. I'm taking all your advice seriously and I intend to practice some new tricks over my somewhat short summer break. Thanks.
Rolyan
View Profile
Special user
I'm fencing in my land; so far there are
579 Posts

Profile of Rolyan
Quote:
On Aug 4, 2014, Suffolk wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...


That's because the vast majority of people that go to conventions aren't really interested in that aspect of their hobby.

Michael Bailey

You would be surprised how many ARE interested, given half the chance (see my post above). If more organisors did it the more they would realise how popular it was. I gave Michael some feedback on this re the Minds convention and he's giving it serious consideration for next year.
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
Roylan - I've offered to lecture on this before. No one was interested
Rolyan
View Profile
Special user
I'm fencing in my land; so far there are
579 Posts

Profile of Rolyan
Quote:
On Aug 4, 2014, Suffolk wrote:
Roylan - I've offered to lecture on this before. No one was interested

I blame the organisers and their shortsightedness; many 'normal' performers would be pleased given half a chance.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
The sad fact is that, outside of the PEA, most people that go to mentalism gatherings want to learn "new tricks."
Davidzajac
View Profile
New user
63 Posts

Profile of Davidzajac
What is PEA?
Suffolk
View Profile
Elite user
402 Posts

Profile of Suffolk
It's a kind of legume.
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8664 Posts

Profile of harris
Same in magic.

Some people call some magicians,
Lay people with a business card.


Sewiously yours.

Harris
Formerly known as
The Phoenix. 70's
The Mime over Matter - 80's
Nearly Normal Magician - 90's to 00's
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Davidzajac wrote:
What is PEA?


The Psychic Entertainers Association- the oldest and largest society of mentalist in the world.

http://www.p-e-a.org/
robwar0100
View Profile
Inner circle
Buy me some newspapers.Purchase for me 1 Gazette and
1748 Posts

Profile of robwar0100
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I've always found it a bit weird that you never get lectures at conventions about how to run "you" as a business successfully (tax, accountants, what you can and can't claim for, worth joining equity and so on), and you never really get any on stagecraft or persona either...if you're lucky, you get some on the philosophy behind that particular person's persona/performing criteria, you tend to not get many stories in the field as it were either...you get some, but not many...

i have access to enough "stuff" already, I think lectures in how to raise yer game, how to take the next step, agent vs no agent, managing the advertising side of it all...that's what would make conventions and so forth a bit more interesting...


There was some of this at MagiFest in Columbus, Ohio, this year.

But, as someone else has mentioned, conventions attract a lot of the hobbyists, who want magic, magic and more magic. Richard Osterlind has a book about the business side of magic.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
Davidzajac
View Profile
New user
63 Posts

Profile of Davidzajac
That sounds interesting. I think membership has definite perks.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Corinda (16 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.31 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL