Hello all!

One of my New Year's resolutions was to learn how to do the four coin roll out. That's where you start with a stack of four coins and roll them so that each coin ends up in between each finger.

I've read everything I can, visited Coinmagic.com, and even watched a couple of tapes. After 19 days of 45 minutes of practice per day, I can proudly say that I have MASTERED the four coin roll-off-the-fingers-onto-the-floor. I'm a very patient person and realize I still have another 347 days to get this down, but I'll admit I'm getting a little flustered.

I've checked with other magicians in the local rings (two different cities and rings), and haven't found anyone who can do it. Is there a tape or video that goes in depth enough to make it easier than what I'm doing? Who teaches it the best? Anyone from the Chicagoland area who would be interested in helping me (I'm willing to drive four hours to get instruction)?

I know there are several different ways to do it, but in each way I've tried, I still can't get it down.

Thanks in advance for your help!

-Jon

Jon,

I worked several years ago on this for a year, daily. I still cannot do it.

I witnessed Tim Star when he was at Abbott's one year do it with halves or quarters, this was up close, and he kept doing it over and over. He could do the flash appearance. Holding 4 coins, then "bam" they are now between his fingers.

I studied from the McMillian Coin Manipulation Book. I have came back to this several time. I cannot still do it.

So don't feel bad. It is only a knack.

Bill

Just posted a reply in the coin section and thought to have a look at this thread too:

I did a manipulation act , when I was about 18 years old. It had a longer sequence of coin manipulation in it.
I did a lot of stuff from Ron Mc Millan`s book and even made first place at Prix Juventa in Berlin. There I showed the coin manipulation and used Ron Mc Millan´s coin spread. The reason to use it or better the reason why it is better than other coin spreads is that the spread happens in a matter of a split second. One second there is nothing, next second there is four coins between your hands.
I finished my act with Mc Millan´s coin over the back flourish: you take four coins throw them over your head and catch them behind your back in the coin spread position. With the Mc Millan spread it can be done and I did perform it on stage very often, also in the competition mentioned above.
I do not do manipulation anymore but looking at recent developments, there is nothing better than the Mc Millan spread.

GET THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a lot of ways of doing a roll out aren't there? What methods are you guys trying? There's a method in Mark Wilson's book that I think is pretty straight forward.

I've tried the methods in Bobo, Mark Wilson, Bill Tarr, and coinvanish.com. As for videos, I've only seen it done by John Mendoza (he covers it way too fast and with a bad camera angle).

Just for an update on my progress, I've managed to get the four coins in the preliminary positions, but when I lift my middle finger to display them, all four go flying like I've just done a muscle pass.

First of all, this is one of those things that's easy to learn when you're young and unemployed. As a high school student, I learned this rather painlessly, just like calculus and grammar, none of which I would want to have to learn at this point in my life.

Props to you for taking it on in an adult fashion, to the extent that's possible. As far as I can recall, the following might be important:

1. The starting point of the coins on your fingers makes a big difference, i.e. is the stack closer to your fingertips, or the bases of your fingers? While the fingertips might seem more sensitive, further down the fingers is more stable, to a point.

2. Sharp milled edges are your best friends.

3. Consider the size of the coins you're learning with. While you can do this with quarters, halves, or dollars once you've got the knack, the coins you start with should not be so large that the final position stertches your fingers greatly.

4. Shoot for the method taught in Buckley's "Principles and Deceptions", in which the coins spread out smoothly into position. However, to learn this, I found it was easier to first learn it in steps, as taught in Bobo's, and then later to smear the steps together.

5. The first step is to fold the middle finger inwards, forming sort of a table. The first two coins are allowed to slide off the stack, across the "table" to be caught by the 3rd and 4th fingers. At first, your thumb can be used to jam the coins into position, but this is not necessary with practice.

6. The next step follows quickly on the heels of the first. Once the stack of two coins is securely held between the third and fourth fingers, the thumb brings the other two into position, near to, and parallel to, the first stack.

7. Once the coins are in position, bring your middle finger back, snagging the two bottom coins of the stacks, resulting in, bingo, a rollout.

The Buckley rollout is what you get when you practice this about a hundred times, the coins don't bother going into stcks, they just open out into an even spread.

I hope this helps, it's the steps I recall taking as a kid. DO learn this, it's quite useful, and you'll need it to perform my "51 coins to pocket" from PoS 5.

Well you might already have this Jon... but Michael Ammar teaches the roll down on Easy to Master Coin Miracles 2

Don't worry I can only seperate the coins into two parts. Then they do the good ol' "falldown"

Thanks, Curtis, and all.

Well, I was 40 before I learned how to swim.... something I always wanted to do. I can't tell you how many stomachs full of water and chlorine I swallowed in the process while all the little kids were zipping past me like eels. I'm still no Mark Spitz (showing my age), but I can get from one end of the pool to the other.

I'm using half dollars right now. I start them more towards the base of my hands rather than the fingertips because I know one of the rollouts will have a coin rolling over the back of a fingernail if I don't and that's a sure recipe for a slip.

From the number of emails and PMs received, I think Ammar's tapes (are they still made in Betamax format???) will be next on my list.

Thanks to all who have responded. I'll keep you updated.

The version I teach on coinvanish.com is closest to the one Roth teaches on his Flourishes, Stunts and Wagers video.

I studied the Roth video, Ammar, and Bobo's to learn it. I tried all, and the one I teach is the one that came easiest to me.

I had to laugh at the betamax comment,
Yesterday I went to a magic shop in my area to see if they had any dvd's. They had mostly videos.
Then I noticed on another shelf two Michael Ammar tape cases and asked the guy about them.
He picked them up and they had stickers on the front that said FREE!
Both were betamax.
I was going to get them if they were free and have them transferred, but I guess the Free stickers were from when the owner of the shop got them.
He said he was planning on getting them transferred too.
Just funny to see your comment and especially you mentioning Ammar on betamax.
Nick Zender

Don't feel bad - I think everyone has summed up that it is difficult. I do it all the time, but think it is important to know..
- Mark Wilson indicates it is easier to perform w/larger coins than smaller. I learned with halves; however now I believe Morgan Dollars are easier
- Wilson classifies this as a master flourish - it is that hard
- There is a prepatory ONE COIN excercise that increases your ability to "balance" the coin through the rollout dramatically. I found it on a manipulation site - PM me and I will find it out for you.
- Ammars ETMCM performs the flourish in a slow motion sequence that I found helpful.
- Buckley's version is magical, but much harder for me

Lastly, I find layman find it an interesting display of dexterity, but nowhere near as powerful as a magic effect.

Have fun

I too struggled with the coin only roll out I first knew from Modern Magic Manual. Rolling one at a time from between the the 1st and thumb to the other fingers. This was very hard so I gave up. I then tried the one from the middle of the fingers rolling two out in both directions fast. I think its a mixture of Roth and Bobo. I seemed to get it in about half an hour practise or so.It took a week to get perfect and to roll them all up when finished. I am now working on the coin star which is a biatch.lol. Maybe the reason I got it quickly is because I am a 18 year old youth with nimble bored fingers. Keep trying once you get it it is addictive, beware.

Kyle

Derek Dingle teaches a method, that he credits to Arthur Buckley, in the "IMS #14 - Routined Coin and Card Magic" video. All 4 coins roll out at about the same time. There isn't any splitting the stack in half.

You sort of slide the stack sideways, so looking at the stack from above you can see about a 1/4 inch of each coin. Your first and third fingers are on one side of the stack and your thumb, second finger and pinky are on the other side. The bottom coin is held by the thumb and first finger, the top coin by the pinky and third finger. If the coins are properly spaced, you just spread your fingers and the coins roll out all at once.

Maybe I just have the "knack", but it only took me a couple hours of practice before I was rolling out the coins without looking. In a few days, I could do it with either hand.

I can't come close to performing a roll out one coin at a time, but I like this effect better anyway. Bang! All four coins are rolled out.

I’m not sure where else this method is published, but it would be worth the effort to find it.

No one happened to mention thatthe condition of your hands might have something to do with it. I have dry hands and also tried for months with no luck until I found SORTKWIK. My problem was never being able to hold a grip on the coins because my hands were so dry. This solved the problem almost instantly.

Also, I got frustrated with trying to read the fine detail and just told my fingers to do it, and they did. Like all things, it's just a knack. Don't give up and good luck!

You might look at the size of the coins.

After awhile,(long or short hey if it was easy everyone would be doing it) you could move on to learning it in your other hand. Then doing it with both at the same time.

I believe I first learned it in my "non-dominant" hand.

Some sleights I have found easier to learn with my left hand.

I have played around with the 10, 11... coin roll outs on the McBride series.

In my rollouts the pinky never ends up in the position to support another coin in between the hands.

But as I said above, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
I started doing coin rolls when I was about 23.

At 49 I had fun learning Curtis K. 3 for 3 exchange.(see his POS 2)

Enjoy the journey.

Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch
For a lighter touch in coin magic

Make your 4 coin rolldown useful, check this out:

http://www.dougconn.com/movies/2of4wmv.wmv

an excerpt from:

http://www.dougconn.com/classroom.htm
(conn's close-up classroom)

enjoy,
Doug

Coin rollouts are by far just another flourish to add to the bundle. They are great- and when properly done- they are interesting to watch.

Brings up another point: the coin roll.

The first 'magic' that I ever saw was a man on television performing what I know now as a coin roll. I always thought as a kid that there were a fountain of coins that came out of one side of that performers hand- and merely 'walked' down his hand and vanished. It was done that well- or maybe it's just because I was a kid at the time. So when I was first starting out with coins- the first thing I learned to do- was a coin roll. Then came coin splits. Even before vanishes came these flourishes. People automatically assumed that I could make the coin then vanish- well I had some reading and learning to do before I could accomplish that.

Practice the coin rolls and splits. J. Ace Palmer does them beautifully! Jay Sankey is actually very good at them too. The McBride Manip. tapes volume one and two are such good sources to use when learning these moves. He goes into soo much detail. Bobo's book also has a section on coin splits. Tarbell also believe it or not has a section devoted to the coin roll and splits. PM me if you need anything else.

I DID IT! I DID IT!

It was about 3AM and I was following everyone's advice. Finally, something clicked and it happened. I had Dan Watkins' Coinvanish.com's page printed out in front of me, and it just happened. The coins rolled out, felt really weird, and stuck between all the fingers.

I stayed up till 4 AM working on it more. In the following hour, I managed to do it again two more times.

The coins are still squirting all over the room as of today, but now that I KNOW I can do it, it's just a matter of practice.

Thanks to all who helped. I really appreciate the time you took to type out the responses. I think the main lesson I learned from this can be summed up in just six words:

Never, never, never, never, never quit.

Congrats!

Hard work always pays. If you want to try you can do Down's coin star (page 202 in Bobo) quite easily from 4 coin rolldown. Just make your hand a fist and those coins naturally go between your fingers. Then slightly even the coins against a table or other hand and then open and turn your hand palm up.. Down's coin star!

Jon,

You sound like you are on your way. After I got to the point you did, it just got more consistant.

Even now, even though I typically do it with no problem, every now and then I will lose the pinky coin, that's the toughest one for me for some reason.