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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » P & T's "Fool us", fools no one! They did it again! (31 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Phil J.
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I went to the filming of one episode of 'Fool Us'. P&T did their best not to reveal any secrets. However, if any contestant argued the toss over the method they would reveal the secret. Given that there was a prize involved they had little choice but to do the reveal. Believe me what you see on the TV is nothing compared to what was cut out.
You were born original... Don't die a copy Smile
Dave Le Fevre
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Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
Feel free to enlighten me on that with specific regard to the Penn and Teller performance that is the subject of this thread - https://tv.yahoo.com/video/penn-teller-r......687.html

The title of this thread is P & T's "Fool us". You didn't start the thread. However, if you feel that you're entitled to dictate what is and isn't pertinent to this thread, then I can't be bothered to argue.

Apologies if that sounds a bit terse. You asked for an example of exposure. I gave an example of exposure. I'd added but no doubt you'll disagree, and then I'd removed it because I didn't wish to sound contentious. Might as well have left it there, because no matter what example anybody gave, you weren't going to accept it. You've made your mind up.

Dave
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Payne
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Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dougini wrote:

I suppose I undertstand the apathy of the Pros, since you are constantly updating your acts.



Most Pros don't update their acts. There's the old saying that the difference between a professional and an amateur magician is that the professional does the same tricks for different audiences while the amateur does different tricks for the same audience. I've been doing pretty much the same act at my Ren Faires for over thirty years now.

Quote:


Me, I'm a simple sort. Show magic to my friends once in a while. I'm really miffed about paying $35 to $40 for an effect, just to see the Masked Moron expose it for all! Charlie Justice did not give Bruce Nash permission. Valentino openly exposed it. No credit given...nothing.



Understandable. But it should motivate you to find material that hasn't been exposed on YouTube. Stay away from the latest and greatest YouTube Wonder being foisted on the magic community and delve into some books. There's tons of effects and routines out there that can't be found on YouTube. Especially if you don't call them by name when you are performing them.

Or better yet, create your own routines. It's not as hard as one might think.

That's low-life behavior to me...

Doug [/quote]
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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I generally find that the people who are most upset about "secrets" being exposed are those who the secret to the trick is all they have.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
MartiniMagic
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I think there was a lot of exposure in the Houdini Miniseries.
magicwatcher2005
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On Sep 3, 2014, MartiniMagic wrote:
I think there was a lot of exposure in the Houdini Miniseries.


Yeah, I heard that. I also heard Penn AND Teller were both co-producers and it was sponsored by Youtube. Also, supposedly the production company that created the Magic's Greatest Secrets Revealed series has optioned it for syndicated release.

Of course, those may all just be unfounded rumors...

.
Ado
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On Sep 3, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
You're talking about the stairs in THIS video? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GN98dykPqcE

Wow, if you think those are "deceptive stairs" you need to go back to beginner magic class.

Well, I didn't take classes. I just guesses from words that it was, well, what it is.
Oh, yes, I was able to realise that this staircase was very big. But my take on that is that now, people WILL think of the staircase, and "lovely assistants" have been known to accommodate well in less room.

It's like saying that by showing a DL where the two cards are not aligned at all, you're not exposing it well done.
While that is true in that you don't get an exposed view of the thing done properly, it still pretty much tells you the concept that is used by people who do it well enough that you would not have considered it had you not seen this comical interpretation.

In other words, they have exposed the *method*, while not (always) using optimal props.


Quote:
But you couldn't know any of that because you've drawn your conclusions based on incomplete information.

I stand corrected. They have exposed a handful of *methods*, and used another one which fooled me.

P!
magicwatcher2005
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On Sep 4, 2014, Ado wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
You're talking about the stairs in THIS video? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GN98dykPqcE

Wow, if you think those are "deceptive stairs" you need to go back to beginner magic class.

Well, I didn't take classes. [...]


Okay... that explains everything. Never mind.

But if you get a chance, have a magician who IS educated show you Marlo's "Spider Vanish" (it's a coin sleight). Alternately you could ask to see Skinner's variation, the "Spidergrip Vanish". Either one uses [apparently] awkward, clumsy handling to make the audience believe they have caught the magician attempting to only pretend to take the coin with one hand while secretly retaining it. In reality, the magician actually DOES take the coin, but the audience is convinced otherwise. By the time they discover it's not where they think it is the coin is safely out of play, leaving no clue as to where it could have gone.

So it is with the Penn and Teller stairs that have you so concerned. They didn't have to build a special prop that was grossly over-sized and bright sparkley pink so that it could not possibly fool anyone. In fact, they could have easily obtained a truly deceptive prop - but then they actually WOULD have been exposing a secret. By making the stairs SO obvious they turn the whole idea of hiding a person in a set of stairs into one big gag. In the future, should that same audience see an illusion that uses a REAL set of deceptive stairs they will have no idea, because they've been conditioned to think that it takes a pretty big set of obviously hollow stairs to pull it off. I would bet that ten minutes after the Penn and Teller routine the same people could be seriously baffled by a genuine illusion using truly deceptive stairs. So much for "exposure".

.
Ado
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On Sep 4, 2014, magicwatcher2005 wrote:
Okay... that explains everything. Never mind.

How condescending. Was it necessary? (This is a real question. Please answer.)

I have no interest in stage magic, and I have never looked for secrets behind it.
I did, however, and by pure coincidence before joining this thread, recently rediscovered the prop by watching a magican on America's got Talent on youtube. Forgot the name, but it was him being tied to a table, with spikes in flames. all behind a curtain. The spikes drop, he's behind the judges. The magician's staircase was much bigger than that of your picture, and I quickly thought of the staircase.

I was able to devise the prop without the hint.
It seems very plausible that having seen the ugly staircase, the chances of gettign the insight of the staircase in a real performance increases dramatically. I think that the risk of people making this link is high enough to classify P&T's action as exposure of the method (which it is, since there exist stairs to do exactly that).

If you don't think that showing that someone who is hidden in a wheeled staircase to escape a set (ie, P&T's demo) is indeed exposure of the use of a staircase as a mean to secretly move someone away from the set (ie, a method used by magicians), then we won't agree. I don't think colour makes it less exposure.

I do think they exposed the method, even though the prop was grotesque.


Quote:
But if you get a chance, have a magician who IS educated show you Marlo's "Spider Vanish" (it's a coin sleight).


I know it. And I don't like it. I think it's an unnecessary ugly move, and that magic would be improved if alternative vanishes were used. And that if there's no alternative move for that trick, then an alternative trick should be chosen. I think that, because the spider vanish is doable, doesn't mean that it has to be done. Marlo is one of the magicians I like the most, and with all due respect, I dislike this creation of his.

P!
lunatik
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I've already answered it but apparently you cannot read. They showed a method did they not? Maybe not every magician in the world uses that method, but to say no one does would be ignorant.

This thread is like saying Hitler was a nice community oriented gentleman because he had a lemonade stand, but neglecting to see the bigger problem. Why stick up for him and fight tooth and nail for such an atrocious man? Same thing for P&T, who cares that they do a few decent things when on the other hand they commit such atrocious acts of exposure throughout their career?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
tomsk192
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Tim Cavendish
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Lunatik invooked Hitler.

The thread is over.

lunatik lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
magicwatcher2005
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On Sep 4, 2014, lunatik wrote:
I've already answered it but apparently you cannot read. They showed a method did they not? Maybe not every magician in the world uses that method, but to say no one does would be ignorant.

[Godwin's Law invoked, making this poster look even more foolish - omitted here for obvious reasons]


I read just fine, lunatik; others do too. Please direct us to the post where you specifically detailed WHAT method was exposed in Penn and Tellers Sawing routine. I'm talking specifics here, not just the general term "method". At one point you offered to enlighten me in a manner that "even a 2 year old" could understand (a level you may or may not be capable of). So I asked you to detail what method was exposed, even if you can only do so at that elementary level. As yet you have failed to do so.

You say "Maybe not every magician in the world uses that method" as if there are some who DO. Currently there are tens of millions of videos on Youtube. First we'll have to get you to detail the method you insist was exposed, but after that you should able to find some magicians who DO use this as-yet-unknown method. If there is ANY resource that would help us discover those poor souls it would be Youtube, and I have repeatedly asked you to direct us to such videos. As usual you have been unable or unwilling to do so.

At this point it's sort of a put up or shut up moment - though it seems you refuse to do the former and I doubt you are capable of the latter. The only conclusion I can draw is you cannot provide specifics because you don't have any. The vague generalization "they exposed a method" won't cut it here, probably not even among those who kind of agree with you. So, you know... put up or shut up.

.
lunatik
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I think the both of you need to do the latter, have we not been talking about a wedge this whole time?!?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
colin72
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Quote:
On Sep 4, 2014, lunatik wrote:
I think the both of you need to do the latter, have we not been talking about a wedge this whole time?!?


Quote:
On Sep 4, 2014, colin72 wrote:
Since you've already answered the question, please refer me to that specific post.
lunatik
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Have we not been talking about a wedge? That was my first contention. And I added the rest to the thread. At any rate, what's so hard to understand either point? If you don't, then it very well may be that we'll have to agree to disagree. But if you still want to go on and on about it, I'm more than happy to oblige lol.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
magicwatcher2005
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On Sep 4, 2014, lunatik wrote:
Have we not been talking about a wedge?


Amazing - you turn out to be the most gullible of all.

It's true, Penn does utter the word "wedge", and so you think that's the name of a magic principle they have now exposed. In reality, the closest thing to "a wedge" you can find in the field of illusions is the wedge base, but you obviously don't have a clue about what that is because the Penn and Teller Sawing prop does not utilize the wedge base principle in any manner whatsoever - not during the fake exposure portion of the routine... and not in the actual illusion itself.

Feel free to try again. But maybe get someone who knows something about magic to help you this time. The only magic principle I am aware of called "a wedge" is used in card magic and was invented by (and named after) Dai Vernon.

Quote:
On Sep 4, 2014, lunatik wrote: That was my first contention. And I added the rest to the thread. At any rate, what's so hard to understand either point? If you don't, then it very well may be that we'll have to agree to disagree. But if you still want to go on and on about it, I'm more than happy to oblige lol.


I do. Please continue to try, lunatik. It's very entertaining watching you trip over your own ignorance, and you're actually laughing out loud, so it's all good... right?

.
ZachDavenport
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What I don't like about this thread is how everybody seems so mean spirited. People are actually insulting other people over nothing more than a simple question. It is magicians helping magicians, not magicians insulting magicians.
Reality is a real killjoy.
lunatik
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No reason to show ANY working of the illusion, regardless if you don't think anyone uses it or not. And he's , I will continue to laugh at your ignorance. So what about P&T's other videos that expose, got some more excuses for them fanboy?

P.S. How's your Big Bird puppet been doing btw?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Ado
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On Sep 4, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
They didn't let him through either time, but on what was I think the first appearance, they said that he'd 'rung in something from the cooler'. Exposure? Well, shortly thereafter, 'The Cooler' was marketed, and you can Google that if you don't know what it does already. But to be honest, it wasn't really exposure. Watch the clip: it's seamless.


I think this was just a coincidence. What you bring from the cooler is a cold deck. He just didn't want to say that (though I'd have to watch the video again to see whether the actual device called a cooler was in play. But I doubt it). That is cryptic enough to be meaningless to those not in the know, and thus not exposure. Had he said "I think you ended with a deck different from that you started with", it would have publicly put the switch as the method actually used to get cards in an improbable arrangement. That would have qualified as exposure of a mean, even though the when and how wouldn't have been explained.

P!

PS: I'm still waiting for magicwatcher2005 to answer my question.
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