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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Is spooky more about sales? (31 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Godzilla
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I, wish more would post about Spooky/Bizarre products & reviews here !

I would like to know about different options from several, than just a few ...
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Dave Scribner
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
Perhaps with need an area like the mentalists have just for sales and promotion. General discussion would then be in Spooky and any serious talk regarding methodology would go in the crypt.


Just for what it's worth, the mentalist do not have an area for sales and promotion. As I wrote above, Penny is for discussions and Mentally speaking is for reviews. Sales should be in Let's make a deal although that doesn't always happen.
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Christopher Gould
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On Aug 18, 2014, DocBenWiz wrote:

I have found that over the past couple of years, I have purchased some new effects/props, been excited with the initial info and suggestions in the manuals provided, but then look to the forums for creative, helpful, enhancing contributions and they are either (1) few and far between (2) outdated by a year or more since anyone has contributed or (3) a few kind souls make some enthusiastic and very useful suggestions and then nothing more is seen in that particuler forum!
In some cases certain dealers have included in their sales descriptions the point that additional material (instructions, enhancememts, script ideas, ways of adapting props, etc, etc) will be discussed and included inthe special "forums". I have bought some items, gone into the forum for that item, and found that no one has made any posts there for well over a year!
I say this, not so much as a complaint, but as a wish and an encouragement that some folks would consider going back again into one of the forums of their favorite prop/effect/collectible item (assumimg they still remember the secret pass code, ha, ha) and make a current contribution. New ideas, enhancements, suggestions for presentation, additions, results of performance, etc and revive some interest there.


This is how this works. I speak for myself, but I am sure it applies to other dealers equally.

When I release a product, it is not put out until it is complete and performable. This is what you are paying for.
However, other ideas may occur to me through further performance or evolution of ideas. Also, other users may get back to me with observations or ideas that they have come up with. Finally, I think it is important for dealers to be around to answer questions that new users may have.
All of this is dealt with by AM on the special users forums. Other dealers have similar procedures. But this is an *extra* it is not what you are paying for. It is done as a free extra service by dealers, and as a mark of respect and consideration for customers. So there should be no automatic expectation of this facility being there at all, nevermind that this should be regularly updated. Content in these forums is totally dependent upon user feedback. Some of the items I sell are very popular and generate a lot of interest and thought from active users. Therefore there will be a lot of content on the Kadar forum for example. Other products may have a lower level of interest, or it may be the case that the routine just works, and that there is little more to say about it. I really would not expect this to be regularly updated, it is more like a library of ideas that is by the community and for the community. The dealers are facilitators of such a feature, not the authors, their job is done when they send out the item you have paid for.
As to secret passwords, if anyone has forgotten theirs, the solution is only a pm away.
I am delighted at the positive response on some of these support forums and is is great when people take the time to contribute their thoughts, ideas and experiences. However, I do not have (and should not have) any expectations.
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Joshua J
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Come on now Reece what are you trying to sell?

In part the forum restriction do stop a certain amount of discusion as a lot can't be done openly. But both of the forums for penny and spooky down below always have a lot more content. But in the case of bizarre a lot of us will be working from many of the wonderful dealer props, so sales threads will be popular. Luckily there are some very creative individuals such as the curator who inspire with routines they have made themselves.
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As per usual, I am in complete agreement with what Christopher Gould is saying. I would add the following:

Spooky is very like an ongoing, on-line convention. As such, Spooky has all of the hallmarks of any professional convention: We have our headline presenters (who post links to their performance videos). We have the smaller, 'breakout' seminars on topics of special interest (Salem witches, cryptozoology, paranormal phenomena, relevant new movies, trends, current events, &c.--conducted by some of the world's leading proponents--some of these seminars are better attended than others, as happens with any convention program.) We have even smaller, more private 'corridor chats' that occur spontaneously between a few persons sharing similar interests (often old friends just catching up after a lengthy and unintended silence)--chats that the rest of us eagerly sneak up close to and eavesdrop upon. And, like any convention, we have a rather large and centrally located Exhibition area where items of commercial interest are on display for sale or order.

As at any convention, the Exhibition area is the most regularly attended and often the most immediately interesting location. While new products always create the immediate buzz (in any convention, be it Academic, Business, or Bizarre), it is ultimately the 'star' seminar or exciting conversation that carries the most significant weight and is best remembered after we come home again.

Conventions are not mainly about sales. Sales happen, of course, and products create a certain palpable cynosure for the event, but in the end it is the conversations, seminars, and shared ideas that carry the day.

So it is with Spooky . . . except you don't have to register at a rickety table, pay the registration fee, or figure out where 'the Gold room' is or locate the West Tower on the tiny map printed in your program booklet.

BC
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I should point out, the *hilarious* image above is aimed at the OP, not the good Prof
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Christopher Gould
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2014, The Curator wrote:
So, the solution is easy: more sales posts.


Christian, I think you may be missing my point entirely. I am referring here to customer back up on the Moon forum, not here. So I am talking about how to reduce such posts by having them in the appropriate place. The case I am making is a simple one. If the structure of this forum remains the same then it is up to both dealers and consumers (and all shades in between) to ensure that we all get the forum that we want. It is a shared responsibility.

People have already said that this is the place that they want to come to to find out about what is coming out, and that they would rather come here to get this information than elsewhere. At the same time, there is understandable concern if dealers posts swamp out general discussion. So, as I have said, it is a matter of balance and a balance that we all play a part in.

It is important for me to let people know when I have something new that they may benefit from or enjoy hearing about (incidentally, I do not really make a living from this, for me it is more for the intellectual and creative challenge/engagement).
At the same time, I do not think it is appropriate for me to keep bumping my posts. Generally, if a post is made on one of my treads, it is for a genuine reason. Either I have some information that needs adding, or I am responding to a question, or someone has independently decided to make a comment. Giving support and feedback to customers is a vital service. However, in my view, this is not the best place to do it (although sometimes this is unavoidable) there are other more appropriate places, such as 'down below' (which clearly has a different meaning here than what it did to my mother), or on private forums linked to the dealer's website. This is a call for less posts promoting, not a call for more.
This for me is a good code of conduct, it is up to other dealers to arrive at what works for them. All we seem to be asking here that dealers and posters respect this need for balance.
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
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The Curator
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Quote:
On Aug 17, 2014, Dave Scribner wrote:
Tony said it best in that what you see is driven by the members. We set up the forums and if members misuse them, the result is what you currently see.



You said it all.
IAIN
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I would say that with bizarre in partic-ulaaaar, there are far more collectors than performers... how and when do you perform the creepy spooky stuff some of you love? context is king, I would find it hard to take to see someone in a pub with a huge box full of all kinds of stuff...

and this is said by a person who used to perform at a table, after a dinner party...with a chinese wooden box, with self-workers inside and all my own written stories...after dinner as a special guest works...doing it in a pub, not so much...then again, doing ONE thing in a bar or pub, can be spectacular too...but its not a living as such...putting on shows, no doubt parlour more suitable than stage (i know there are some excellent spooky performers who do stage though)...

but for those who buy the latest "thing", I wonder how much they do with it? and don't get me wrong, there is no bad answer...its just that if there are more collectors than performers, then you won't get the creative juices flowing, because there's nothing to create apart from a few ideas...testing them out, and sharing them with others who will also go and perform is were you'll find the nuances and subtleties and new/fresh approaches...

collecting something odd and wonderful is certainly no bad thing...its just not one that will spark new ideas, that's all...

from my point of view - a lot of spooky is about the new product, or a show and tell (look what I have!), and then some say "hey, where did you get that unique and odd object, I WANT ONE TOO!"... which always feels odd to me! bizarre is about different, counter culuture, old school and nu skool and archaic and odd references all thrown together...

it seems that people need a plot given to them, rather than building up the story themselves...storytelling is the key, surely? without that - what do you have? some old looking stuff and not muc else...

looking from the outside in, and with some very fond memories of bizarre "stuff" - I feel some people are losing touch with what made bizarre, bizarre...losing the skills and creativity...

tell an unique and engaging story...
the fine line between reality and paranormal
metaphors and tales that people can identify with, yet also can't quite believe or not want to listen to the potential horrors it hints at...
forget the props, the ancient keys to a lost civilisation...
make me identify with some part of it, because then when I'm invested in it, the risk of loss, the fear of something not going right is when I will believe in YOU...

"i could tell you a story right now, about a young boy who saw a very odd sight whilst conker picking in the woods...and how he squeezed the spikey conker shells so tightly in fear, he pricked and bled his palms something awful...he kept telling himself over and over it wasn't real, what he saw... he soon told himself that nothing was real so much and so often, that the blood in his hands dissapeared, the holes in his hands vanished...and before he realised it, his family mourned him for running away, despite him living with them still...he was no longer real himself...."

nothing special, short, to the point, opens up to a few effects/presentations...a lot people in the UK will identify with playing conkers as a kid...conkers on strings convert over to pendulums, blood in the hands convert over to stigmata...all kinds of open avenues...
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So what we currently see is the result of misuse rather than the free flow of information? Really?
I think Prof BC nailed it with the convention analogy.
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IAIN
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A forum is always the collective sum of its contributors!
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Darkness
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Its not too late to organize this better but everyone has to "buy in" so to speak and stop going against the grain of the coffin. I think more discussion downstairs is appropriate for a start, but look how well that's going. How have we evolved in our communications? Its a little like mob mentality. Unfortunatley, its now part of the culture. Dave is right, they built it and we just mess it up. We have to be our own janitors and pickup after ourselves. Reviews downstairs for starters? Can we agree to that at least or whats the point?
IAIN
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Why not use mentally speaking to post reviews?

Use crypt to discuss more in depth ideas and nuances, and up here for general chat and help?
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The Curator
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I would say that with bizarre in partic-ulaaaar, there are far more collectors than performers...


Sure, but some of us perform.
Bizarre magic has always been a pipe dream for most of the magicians, but there are few exceptions. And it seems to me very interesting to compare various approaches.
I'm also very interested by original creators like Prof BC or others.
But as you say, people make the forum.
Doug Higley
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I'm sure there will be those (many most likely) who will disagree but I'm old and don't give a hoot...continuing Prof BC's analogy to a 'Convention'...how successful would any convention be with stern restrictions on the conversation that randomly breaks out amongst the attendees? One might see large amounts of convention goers go to the one next door without thought police waving thier fingers. Most adults that I know would rather speak freely and not be concerned that ideas and thoughts that form and beg to be shared should be so regulated and pigeon holed with the inevitable admonishment soon to follow. Not that I'm saying good, qualified, even exceptional 'attendies' would go elsewhere...oh wait...I am saying that. But it is not too much to ask that a post be thoughtful and useful and that monitors are needed to control the unruly and trollers, that's a given...but one person's apple is another's bitter melon...eat what you like, spit out what you don't, leave it up to the monitors to pay attention and enjoy ALL that the convention has to offer. Smile
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Doug Higley
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One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day...
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2014, Doug Higley wrote:
One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day...



I agree totally with Doug - I think that it is nice to have one location for all the general discussions and news/reviews of releases with the more involved talk occurring in the Crypt. I'm looking in Spooky right now and the threads don't seem over-weighted with product pitches - I really don't see a problem here at all.
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2014, Doug Higley wrote:
One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day...


Here, here. Well said! This is my experience, too. What's the advantage in making our discussion section LESS convenient? We each have the ability to ignore those threads we don't wish to read, after all.

BC
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On Aug 17, 2014, Godzilla wrote:
I am curious to how some of the Creators and Members that do post threads in 'Spooky' about products, that can be discussed here ... seem to VANISH like magic !
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Doug Higley
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If that is rhetroical, I appologize for answering personally...for me it was a LONG time of not being able to get in. The password thingy wasn't working for me and numerous attempts over many months failed...finally after a bunch of communications with the a tech mod it was fixed for me so TA DA...I reappeared...add to that I got a bit bored with trying.

As to others...there's a cornicopia of reasons they 'vanish'. We know some...others might be blamed on UFOs or Bigfoot.

What are your thoughts G?
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