The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Happy Labor Day... (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
RNK
View Profile
Inner circle
4987 Posts

Profile of RNK
Quote:
On Sep 1, 2014, imgic wrote:
In a bit of irony I'm actually doing done work today for a client who's biggest issue is trouble with labor unions...


My last company to had a lot of trouble with labor unions. They do have some good points but like everything there is bad to. My last company I worked had a job that got shutdown because of the incompetence and laziness of the union workers. See- the workers can be lackluster in their performance when belonging to a union. Because- 1) if they get kicked off the job the union always finds them another one and the worker knows this and 2) you can be a slouch and do half the work of your fellow union workers but still make the same amount of money they do. There is no incentive to work hard because performance does not dictate your pay scale, the contract you signed with the union dictates your pay scale which is the same for all workers whether your and excellent worker or a crappy worker.

RNK
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, landmark wrote:
In the US, our powerful labor movement was able to get rid of the extra U.


Prior to corruption the union movement played a HUGE part in the development of this country and in many of the benefits even non union workers enjoy today. Labor unions were necessary at one point and even essential.

Public sector unions however even FDR cautioned against.

The business model has not changed since the 30's and if they want to be relevant they need to change. I think they can still be so they just need to clean house and restructure.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
I agree with you, Danny. But keep in mind that just as much corruption has existed, and continues to exist, on the management side of the labor/management partnership.
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17565 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Unfortunately 4 million less jobs this year than in 2008 ... depressing really!!! I love Unions .. I hate corruption!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Unfortunately 4 million less jobs this year than in 2008 ... depressing really!!! I love Unions .. I hate corruption!

Are you sure about that?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/06/investing/may-jobs-report/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4921 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, landmark wrote:
In the US, our powerful labor movement was able to get rid of the extra U.


Prior to corruption the union movement played a HUGE part in the development of this country and in many of the benefits even non union workers enjoy today. Labor unions were necessary at one point and even essential.

Public sector unions however even FDR cautioned against.

The business model has not changed since the 30's and if they want to be relevant they need to change. I think they can still be so they just need to clean house and restructure.


The U thing was a joke for Magnus's benefit.

Anyway, I agree with you that unions need re-structuring. Though maybe for different reasons. I believe in public service unions. I think police officers, firefighters, teachers all need unions.

Organized crime was allowed to infiltrate some unions in the 50s when the bought off AFL-CIO threw out the communists and socialists who had built the unions. What that did effectively is make the union structures much less democratic. The most effective unions traditionally have been those which were controlled by the rank and file and addressed more than just bread and butter issues, but also took a wider view and helped to build a more democratic, responsive government.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
FDR was right. No need for public sector unions. Who do they organize against exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, landmark wrote:
In the US, our powerful labor movement was able to get rid of the extra U.


Prior to corruption the union movement played a HUGE part in the development of this country and in many of the benefits even non union workers enjoy today. Labor unions were necessary at one point and even essential.

Public sector unions however even FDR cautioned against.

The business model has not changed since the 30's and if they want to be relevant they need to change. I think they can still be so they just need to clean house and restructure.


It looks like we all agree with you Danny! Me too!
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4921 Posts

Profile of landmark
Believe it or not I think police officers, among others, deserve adequate pay, conditions, and due process. Those can only be secured and maintained over time with a union. Politicans are happy to ignore contracts if it means they can take that money and transfer into some other pet project. And police officers--yes landmark is saying this--can be thrown under the bus by their superiors without adequate protections.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Same with teachers. It's a disgrace in New Jersey, for example, the way Christie diverted money from the teachers' pension fund, despite agreements with the union.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
No it can be secured without a corrupt bloated burocrscy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4921 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
No it can be secured without a corrupt bloated burocrscy.

Agreed. My position is that police officers and other public service workers deserve non-corrupt, non-bloated, democratic, rank and file unions which protect their members. Protections cannot be secured in any other way. If so, I'd like to hear about it.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4921 Posts

Profile of landmark
Not surprising that the NY Times would print such nonsense. The Times, despite what you might think, has never supported labor unions.

All the opinion piece does is to repeat the FDR quote and a 1959 AFL-CIO position. As I intimated above the AFL-CIO has often taken anti-rank and file labor positions.
Besides that, the only other point the author makes is the absurdly false statement that union contracts make it next to impossible to reward excellent teachers or fire failing ones.

Your supervisor on the police force fires you because he doesn't like Irishmen, so he says you're incompetent. Do you think you have a right to challenge that? Good luck without a union.

Your supervisor on the police force fires you because he says you used unnecessary force and shot someone, and there is political pressure on him to fire the cop who did it, do you think you have the right to a fair hearing and an investigation? Good luck without a union.

Your supervisor decides it's a good idea to change your shift rotation or assignment every three days, because he has the hots for your wife who turned him down. Do you think police officers have right to protest that? Good luck without a union.

You know what I'm saying is not just hypothetical...
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
It is hypothetical. Unions exist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4921 Posts

Profile of landmark
Those kinds of things happen far less often where there are unions in place. Not hypothetical.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
With no comparison without unions it is by definition hypothetical.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20382 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
First off a huge political agenda from the source.

Second of all if more police are on the street it is good right? I noticed how the only complaint they has was one of union busting. Not saying coverage will be worse.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
What is happening in Camden, Danny, has been reported in every newspaper in New Jersey, as well as by Fox news.

The Christie administration has attacked all teacher and police unions in New Jersey.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Happy Labor Day... (2 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL