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bishthemagish
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Gardner Fox - didn't he also do DR Fate? I also remember he did early Batman.
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Orville Smith
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Indeed he did--he created Doctor Fate. But his most famous creation is The Flash. Mr. Fox also introduced the concept of Parallel-worlds to the DC Universe. In other words, the Jay Garrick-Flash in one universe, and Barry Allen-Flash in another parallel universe. Actually the purpose of the idea was to iron out the discrepancies between the 1940's heroes and the 1960's heroes. For example, the discrepancy that the Superman of the 1940's having different powers than the Superman of the 1960's. The solution as conceptualized by Gardner Fox was to have those heroes in separate parallel universes.

Nowadays, scientists actually and seriously propound the theoretical existence of such universes. In fact, the Discovery Channel recently broadcast an hour-long documentary on that theory.
bishthemagish
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I always liked the JSA better than the JLA.

The JSA was the first super hero club that got together to fight crime. One of my favorite comic book series of the 60's was crisis on earth one - earth 2 and the most dangerous earth of all.

What I did not like about it was that they put the JLA ahead of the Having the JSA needing to be rescued by the JLA.
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Orville Smith
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On Nov 27, 2014, bishthemagish wrote:
I always liked the JSA better than the JLA.

The JSA was the first super hero club that got together to fight crime. One of my favorite comic book series of the 60's was crisis on earth one - earth 2 and the most dangerous earth of all.

What I did not like about it was that they put the JLA ahead of the Having the JSA needing to be rescued by the JLA.

True, the JSA was the first. But they had two heroes that disappointed me. Greatly disappointed me because they had No superpowers at all. They were Mr. Terrific and the 1940's Atom (NOT the Ray Palmer version). Why call them superheroes if they have No superpowers?
That's why when The Atom was revived for the Silver Age, Ray Palmer got the superpower of Size-control.
bishthemagish
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The atom of the JSA started off as a wrestler. Wildcat was a Boxer. I liked Star man with is gravity rod before it became the cosmic rod.
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Cliffg37
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Hey Orville.

How did you feel about the Early JSA making Wonder Woman their secretary? Thus leaving her out of the action as often as not. They way the other heroes were played, she could have been argued was thier most powerful member. (Remember, Dr. Fate was on reduced power at that time, Green Lantern was much less powerful than Hal would become, and Flash was fast, but could not do as much.)
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Dannydoyle
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Batman and Green Arrow have no super powers.
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Orville Smith
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On Nov 28, 2014, Cliffg37 wrote:
Hey Orville.

How did you feel about the Early JSA making Wonder Woman their secretary? Thus leaving her out of the action as often as not. They way the other heroes were played, she could have been argued was thier most powerful member. (Remember, Dr. Fate was on reduced power at that time, Green Lantern was much less powerful than Hal would become, and Flash was fast, but could not do as much.)


Hi Cliff. Interesting question you have. That reminds me of the old situation in the Legion of Superheroes where the Male heroes would tell Saturn-Girl that a particular mission is too dangerous for her, so she was left in the clubhouse for her own "safety." As time went on, though, that changed considerably when she not only received equal treatment but was even elected as Legion Leader! So apparently that initial male arrogance was found not only in the JSA but also in the Legion.

When you said that Doctor Fate was on Reduced power at that time, do you mean when he began using the HALF-mask? Since the disembodied spirit of Nabu occupies the helmet, it would take over and possess Kent Nelson. So Nelson, in order to give himself some independence, fashioned a Half-mask. The trade-off, though, is that it reduced the power. So I wonder if you are referring to that particular time.

And what about the Spectre?? You did Not include him. Wasn't he there too? I think Spectre was already powerful at that time --even Omnipotent. After all, he is supposed to be the Arch-Angel Michael, the most powerful of all the angels.
Cliffg37
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Sure Orville, the half mask Dr. Fate is what I meant.

Alright, so you got me with The Spectre, He certainly was the most powerful. I don't think he was played that way in those days, but he is not one to mess with. I remember a special story in the 70's that was a flashback to World War Two. The Specter is standing in the middle of the ocean, basically belly and above visible out of the water, and he is smashing a German ship. Don't know who drew that, but the artwork was brilliant. Captioned with a line that was something like, "Why is this German sailor screaming? Wouldn't you?" Amazing work.

The problem with The Spectre is I don't think any writer really knew what to do with him. His run from the 70's had him as a vengeful and almost evil spirit. His Arch-angel status I beleive, came later on, and was a good direction to take, but it raises the level of the stories away from human experiences. ie. Why would an arch-angel concern himself with a purse snatching? It kind of makes it hard to write for him.
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bishthemagish
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I remember those stories. I liked the Spectre. I find that the more powerful the super hero the harder it is to write for them. That is why they have friends and some of them have secret ID's.

I think Superman is hard to write. The 50's TV show made the show mostly about Clark, Jimmy, Lois and the Chief - Don't call me Chief. The movie Iron man was like this in a way that the movie was about Tony Stark and his rich and crazy world as it was on becoming Iron man.

Still I like the Jsa a lot better than the jla.
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E.E.
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On Sep 11, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:


A team-up movie (Hulk and Spiderman?!)



Really? after The Avengers you still want a team-up?
I shall see you on the other side.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Nov 27, 2014, Orville_Smith wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 27, 2014, bishthemagish wrote:
I always liked the JSA better than the JLA.

The JSA was the first super hero club that got together to fight crime. One of my favorite comic book series of the 60's was crisis on earth one - earth 2 and the most dangerous earth of all.

What I did not like about it was that they put the JLA ahead of the Having the JSA needing to be rescued by the JLA.

True, the JSA was the first. But they had two heroes that disappointed me. Greatly disappointed me because they had No superpowers at all. They were Mr. Terrific and the 1940's Atom (NOT the Ray Palmer version). Why call them superheroes if they have No superpowers?
That's why when The Atom was revived for the Silver Age, Ray Palmer got the superpower of Size-control.


Quite a few superheroes had no super powers. Batman, Green Arrow, The Vigilante, as you said the original Atom and Mr. Terrific.
They were still "super" heroes because they were still willing to put themselves out there protecting humanity.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
bishthemagish
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On Nov 27, 2014, Orville_Smith wrote:

True, the JSA was the first. But they had two heroes that disappointed me. Greatly disappointed me because they had No superpowers at all. They were Mr. Terrific and the 1940's Atom (NOT the Ray Palmer version). Why call them superheroes if they have No superpowers?
That's why when The Atom was revived for the Silver Age, Ray Palmer got the superpower of Size-control.

I always liked Ray Palmer the Atom because he had the size and weight control. And his traveling through the phone lines. Adventures on micro worlds etc. The Justice League Unlimited seemed to turn him into a wimp that preferred research over the JLA adventures.

The Atom of the JSA later on got the Atomic punch. I thought that was a little strange for a wrestler as they are known for holds and takedowns rather than hitting people. The punch should have been written for Wildcat.
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Orville Smith
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Glad to see somebody else besides me who likes The Atom (Ray Palmer). What impresses me about the writer Gardner Fox is that in The Atom series,he could take even preposterous and outlandish situations and yet make them believable. A great example is the story "The Atomic Flea." In the splash-page, Ray Palmer as The Atom is shown as being part of an actual Flea Circus, participating in a Tug-of-War with other fleas. And The Atom even thinks he is a flea himself! Reading this, I'm sure most of you will think this is too ludicrous. But writer Gardner Fox made it plausible by explaining it as an exposure to Protonic radiation (which was an important part of the story). The exposure to the radiation made The Atom think he was the first thing that he saw when he awoke from being knocked unconscious at a carnival. That same radiation made even the people near him think he was a flea too. I know most of you will still think it's too ludicrous, but you would have had to have actually seen that story yourself to have been drawn into the fantasy as I was.

What made that story particularly appealing to me was that around that same time, I saw a TV news-clip which showed a Flea Circus, so realizing that there are actual flea circuses in real life added to the charm of the Atom story. Surprisingly, whenever I mention Flea Circuses to anybody, they don't believe me. They think I'm joking. I would need a laptop with me to show them the Flea Circus on the Youtube video.
ed rhodes
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I thought, with the exception of "Agents of SHIELD," Marvel would let DC keep television and concentrate on movies. Now I've discovered they're going to do 4 13 episode miniseries of Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Daredevil and Jessica Jones (retired super hero, now a private detective) when those shows are finished, they're going to be merged into "The Defenders." I'm kind of disappointed that we won't see the "original" Defenders, Dr. Strange, Submariner and Hulk. Hulk had nicknames for each person in the Defenders and a key moment was when he was trying to find out where Nighthawk was; "Where is Bird-nose?" ignored, "Where is Bird-nose?" ignored "How come no one answers Hulk when Hulk says, WHERE IS BIRD-NOSE?"
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
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When you mentioned the Defenders, it reminded me of that DC group, the FORGOTTEN HEROES. It was just a mini-series but unique because it took very Obscure characters and united them into a group. One of the members was Rip Hunter the Time Master who had built his own time-travel machine. Recently, I actually purchased a copy of "Showcase Presents Rip Hunter." Normally, I would Not be that interested in that series, but the black-and-white reprint-book was less than $20 and with so many issues reprinted in its 500 pages that I could not pass up that bargain. So I bought it.

Those "Showcase Presents" reprint-books are so affordable because they are printed in black and white and on low-quality paper. On the other hand, the DC-ARCHIVES do the reprints in Hard-cover books with high-quality glossy-paper, so are quite expensive. The only times I buy those hard-covers are when they reprint my favorites, such as THE FLASH and also THE ATOM.
Orville Smith
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Was re-reading a Justice League back-issue #4 (Doom of the Star-Diamond) that came out way back in 1961 where Green Arrow got inducted, at which I noticed something odd. In the segment where Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter battle giant-insects, I notice their location is Keystone City. What's odd about it is that Keystone City is actually a city on the Parallel Earth of the Other-dimensional Earth-TWO, so NOT on Earth-One where the JLA adventures take place. (To be more specific, Keystone City is the city on Earth-TWO where the Jay Garrick version of Flash resides.) Is that a discrepancy? I wonder. Whatever the case, it's an oddity.
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Heros are big now. TV and movies.
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Steve_Mollett
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How can one catch up with the other?

Have the same conglomerate buy BOTH, natch!
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Orville Smith
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On Dec 29, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
How can one catch up with the other?

Have the same conglomerate buy BOTH, natch!


Sounds good, Steve. Wish that would happen. Even as a DC fan myself, I get tired of the Superman and Batman movies because they are the only DC movies that are produced. So it's high time for a movie about The Flash. Instead of DC making that current TV-series of The Flash, they should have made a movie. Because the special effects I see on the current TV series are spectacular enough for the theatrical screen, for example, the TV episode where The Flash pitted his super-speed against a tornado created by the Weather Wizard. Spectacular enough for presentation on the theatrical screen.
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