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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2014, IAIN wrote: They both looked like straight prediction effects to me. I saw no signs of traditional conjuring (vanishes, etc.) which would push either routine into the "mental magic" category. |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
I watched all three perform this week with great interest. Have you considered what tight time frames they're working under? They have to present, perform and conclude an effect in a minute and a half. Most of the performers I know aren't even done with their introduction by then.
Mike Super usually delights me -- but in the AGT series he really felt unfocussed in the things he performed. First he was trying to sell that spirit kid thing -- and it simply wasn't working. When he came back, it was flatter still since that whole prediction routine felt very much like a magic trick mixed with a mentalism effect. He was obviously trying to cover a lot of ground in a very tight time frame. I think it may have been too much ground. I would have been inclined to do away with the card thing and play up the prediction made on Stern's radio show. The presentational speed required for a double prediction robbed the impact from each reveal.II think it was the SECOND reveal that made this routine into a magic trick. He also referred to what he was doing as a "trick." But what do I know? I'm not on the program. David and Leeman had a great chemistry and very showy props. I was never bored watching them. Matt Franco has consistently delivered entertaining magic. I really enjoyed his delight in what he was doing and the freshness of his presentation. I think the right performer has been put through. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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sbays Inner circle Burbank, CA 1065 Posts |
I have seen David and Leeman live several times. This is their normal pace. I like them. I have spoken with David several times. He's a nice guy. But they definitely are not a mentalism act. None of these guys are. What they do is fine. It just isn't what I think most of us would agree, Mentalism. But at least they are out there. I think David and Leeman are very commercial, and I could see them as a Vegas act someday.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It seems that a LOT of magicians on AGT lately have been mixing mentalism in with their magic. Personally, I don't like the trend. If you're a mentalist, fine. But why dilute mentalism by presenting it as just another trick? Note that the judges and, apparently, the producers, no longer distinguish between mentalism and magic and everything is presented as a trick.
Not a good thing, IMO. |
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
What they do is not mentalism. They perform mental magic maybe, but not mentalism IMO.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
I simply don't think mentalism belongs on these shows. It advertises the effects as "tricks" by the very fact they are being performed by people desperate for fame and exposure on an amateur talent show. Someone with special powers, whether psychic or psychological wouldn't be racing through effects to impress an ex-Spice girl, a model, a shock jock and some other bald guy.
I think the image of mentalism is being tarnished every time someone performs it on a Simon Cowell show. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 12, 2014, David Thiel wrote: I agree. I really want to like Mike but these problems seem consistent. On Phenomenon, as a "mentalist" he made a motorcycle disappear/appear, on AGT he says he's a magician but leans towards mentalism (or seems to want to without claiming it), and of course the whole spirit thing, I agree with Howard 100%, he quickly was losing interest, believability and credibility, the audience and support. Spirit work is not appealing to the masses as demonstrated on AGT. (Remember Callahan on Phoenomenon?) To me it is this exact thing that blurrs the line of mentalism and magic, and continues to confuse audiences as to the differences or believing mentalism is really just magic. Now to his credit, he did have to (what seemed to be) shift or change his approach and material based on the judges (and I'm sure producers) feedback, which he did do and as David mentioned all within the 90 seconds time constraints, which for his survival was necessary, but it is this changing and adapting as you go that creates the inconsistencies and what ends up being confusion to viewers and the judges as well. This happened last season to with Collins Key -was he a magician or a mentalist? I don't think we still know. What I like and feel is best is when someone goes on and positions themselves solely as a mentalist or mind reader as Dittleman did. Dittleman, Mind Reader. He wasn't lumped in with all of the magicians. Although they still used the words "trick" once or twice (which I would have corrected immediately, early in the competition), it creates a completely different perspective and psychology to the viewers and judges. I feel this very same element is also prevalent in our field (outside of AGT) to audiences and those that book us. There is an old saying in sales and business that "a confused customer never buys" and I feel the same applied here. Confused judges or home audiences will not vote if there is even the slightest feeling of doubt or confusion. In the bigger picture I think AGT often demonstrates the regularly asked and stated perspectives, differences and issues (as discussed here on the Café) to the public - magicians are doing tricks, illusions and things that aren't real, whereas mentalists are often seen as real and believable. |
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Jerskin Inner circle 2497 Posts |
Happy to see Mike Super leave the show, I find him unbearable.
David & Leeman are at the Magic Castle next week and I'll definitely go see them.
GrEg oTtO
MUNDUS VULT DECIPI |
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Galileo Elite user Somerville MA 431 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote: I think that is very on point and I agree with you that there has been a recent trend of putting comedy into mentalism. Also I agree they don't really having that convincing persona that Berglas, Uri, and other greats had, but for the purposes of a show where you present a single trick for 5 minutes once a week there act works, not quite sure how it would hold up as a full hour long Las Vegas act but that's just the nature of the show I think. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
In comedy mentalism, the mentalism itself is presented as a joke or a trick. In pure mentalism it is presented as real, but there's no rule that a real mentalist can't have a sense of humor and he may be jus a naturally funny guy. In fact that adds greatly to the commercial value of the act.
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
In my experience when a guy like mike super gets on a show it provides the cred to get on others shows and gives an edge. I had never seen his phenomenon performances until today but even there he felt like a magician doing pk and all the rest. The motorcycle thing was also magicky. But who can argue with success? It looks like he's using mainly off the shelf stuff anyway.
We will undoubtedly see more of Mike Super but I hope he sticks with magic as I like him better as a magician and it's easier to watch him that way.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I agree Bob. In fact, I can't really think of a true great who didn't have a sense of humour. |
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Galileo Elite user Somerville MA 431 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I should have worded myself better, I'm completely for having funny parts to mentalism routine, I have a few myself and I think it greatly adds to the act as a whole and is good for breaking the ice, my only issue is that some of the way these tricks on AGT are being presented the entire effect is being presented as one big joke and comedy routine, which leaves almost no believability to the effect itself. |
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Ba Ba Booey Special user In Denver, I have no less than 548 Posts |
Hey, I'm surprised no one has mentioned these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tluAOKBg-40 They were not "magicky" at all. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
...Nor psychic either!
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
Not anything, except a bad joke maybe. The lunatics are loose again.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
At least they had an odd, disturbing quality about them. I mean, ok, they were terrible- but they were still more interesting than the Lehman brothers.
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
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On Sep 13, 2014, Ba Ba Booey wrote: Howie summed it up quite well, 'I predict you are going home...' |
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
A deluded couple
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
They sucked - really. There was no performance at all really - just wild claims. Honestly the producers puttinh them on the show was perhaps a little mean.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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