We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » I.S.I.S. (17 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4..16~17~18 [Next]
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16276 Posts

Profile of tommy
"Your mission, Jim/Osama/ or whatever your name is, if you decide to accept it, is to recruit mercenaries, give them causes, arm, fund and train them, to destabilize or destroy sovereign countries etcetera, or whatever fits the bill. As always, should you or any of your I.M. Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions."
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
NYCTwister
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of NYCTwister
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.


Imposing democracy = Liberating the oppressed and suffering


This was exactly my point. Is is NOT our job. We should not be interfering in the affairs of other nations, especially when we have our own problems. Let's end the oppression of those people who are suffering from poverty et.al. in this country. That's assuming that our motives are completely altruistic, which they are decidedly not.

Without getting into a religious debate, the beliefs of most of the people we're speaking of are directly opposed to what democracy stands for. The oppression of women, the persecution of gays, massive censorship and on and on and on.

The point is you can't force people to be free, and we have no right to try to do so, again given pure motives.

If these people want to be free then they must fight for their freedom. Will many of them die trying? Absolutely, but they're dying anyway, their fate in the hands of everyone but themselves.

From the very beginning our involvement has been a disaster, on every level. They are no more free now then when we first got involved.

In my opinion if we withdrew our presence, our weapons, our troops, and our money, the entire region would collapse due to infighting among the various factions and sects.
We could then use those wasted resources on our own problems.

The terrorists say it's because of our interference that they hate us and want us dead. Fine, let's stop interfering and mind our own business.

Will they settle their differences and become a global threat? Perhaps, but considering that most of these societies have existed for far longer that the USA and still can't consistently provide the basic neccesities of life, leads me to believe they won't. More likely they'll destroy themselves.

Instead we're sending more people into Iraq and the insanity is escalating. Again.

More lives and more resources, wasted for more stupidity and greed. And let's face it, it's the money pouring into the pockets of those who make and supply the weapons, that's the true motivation for all this.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20662 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I have no idea what is or is not going on. I know war is a bad option. Always. Maybe the best option at times, but always a bad one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


How many Americans enlisted in the North Vietnamese Army?


Bad analogy. So far, the foreign nationals in ISIL are not from countries that are at war with them. Undoubtedly some of the locals are in a position of civil war, but not the ones we're talking about.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


How many Americans enlisted in the North Vietnamese Army?


Bad analogy. So far, the foreign nationals in ISIL are not from countries that are at war with them. Undoubtedly some of the locals are in a position of civil war, but not the ones we're talking about.


I think it's your analogy that's the bad one. Lunatik's follow-up point about sympathizers we have in our own country and attacks on our own soil from within don't suggest Americans joining Canadians to fight against the North Vietnamese or Nazis.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


How many Americans enlisted in the North Vietnamese Army?


Bad analogy. So far, the foreign nationals in ISIL are not from countries that are at war with them. Undoubtedly some of the locals are in a position of civil war, but not the ones we're talking about.


I think it's your analogy that's the bad one. Lunatik's follow-up point about sympathizers we have in our own country and attacks on our own soil from within don't suggest Americans joining Canadians to fight against the North Vietnamese or Nazis.


I was referring to the original question of foreign nationals joining ISIL to fight. Domestic spies/terrorists is another issue.

But Canadians joining Americans to fight North Vietnamese is not particularly different from Canadians joining ISIS to fight Syrians. (For the record I don't believe either deployment was justified, nor do I find it morally justifiable to join either of the invading armies.)
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17687 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Twister ... They hate us and want us dead because we are INFIDELS....NOT because we are interfering with them, although we truly are!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
NYCTwister
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of NYCTwister
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Twister ... They hate us and want us dead because we are INFIDELS....NOT because we are interfering with them, although we truly are!!!!


So let's stop pretending, leave them to kill each other so the world can see the nonsensical reasons why they are fighting , and deal with what remains. Which probably won't be much.

NO troops, NO weapons and NO aid of any kind.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5044 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.


Imposing democracy = Liberating the oppressed and suffering

Please look up the definitions of oxymoron, impose, and democracy.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5044 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
If 140 had the cash to leave the US and join in the fight ... How many didn't have the cash and STAYED?


Exactly! We must be more diligent then we have ever been in confronting and during whatever it takes to destroy them...

How would you feel about military going door to door and searching for weapons?
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Do you think destroying all of these fighters will stop their desire for a Caliphate?



I can tell you this. To do nothing definitely won't. However that is not the reason for us wanting them out. It is the way they practice their religion using it as an excuse. People should be able to practice their religion as they wish...until it involves killing hundreds of thousands to do so. Also practicing their religion should not include beheadings on youtube. Anyway I do not think it should.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
RNK
View Profile
Inner circle
5522 Posts

Profile of RNK
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.


Imposing democracy = Liberating the oppressed and suffering

Please look up the definitions of oxymoron, impose, and democracy.



Look up humor.....
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20662 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.


Imposing democracy = Liberating the oppressed and suffering

Please look up the definitions of oxymoron,


I am glad I did because I thought you were calling me a fat dum dum.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Democracy was imposed on the United States, once upon a time.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16276 Posts

Profile of tommy
Democracy has many meanings.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20662 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Democracy was imposed on the United States, once upon a time.


Technically landmark does not seem to agree with democracy so it is kind of imposed on him isn't it? There are people in this country today who feel it is imposed on them as well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of NYCTwister
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, tommy wrote:
Democracy has many meanings.


Nope, just one.

Noun, plural democracies.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, tommy wrote:
Democracy has many meanings.


Nope, just one.

Noun, plural democracies.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.


You've got to get a better dictionary.


1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of NYCTwister
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, tommy wrote:
Democracy has many meanings.


Nope, just one.

Noun, plural democracies.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.


You've got to get a better dictionary.


1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.


And the difference is.............?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5044 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Democracy was imposed on the United States, once upon a time.


Technically landmark does not seem to agree with democracy so it is kind of imposed on him isn't it? There are people in this country today who feel it is imposed on them as well.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Gotta stop that one. Democracy is the first principle for me. Govt decision of the people, by the people, for the people. And I defy you to show me one word I've ever posted here that contradicts that.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » I.S.I.S. (17 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4..16~17~18 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.26 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL