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mastermindreader
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That's not what landmark's talking about, Jonathan. It's about bias against immigrants regardless of their legal status.

Like landmark, I see it nearly every day.
LobowolfXXX
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On Oct 11, 2014, landmark wrote:
Fair comment. I can't offer proof, but I do offer these observations:

1)In NYC where I live, theoretically one of the more liberal parts of the nation, scarcely a day goes by where I do not hear some variation on the following about some of the people who live in my neighborhood:

a) Why don't those people learn to speak English!
b) They are all on food stamps and welfare.
c) They ignore Americans in their stores and serve their own kind first.
d) They are criminals.

BTW I hear all these comments about the Russian immigrants in my neighborhood. Now you will notice that none of those comments has anything to do with the legality of their immigration status. The essential complaint is not that they are illegal, but that they are different and plentiful and weren't here before. I don't think it unreasonable to think that the same kinds of conversations happen all over the US.

2) In many municipalities where laws and enforcement policies have been implemented to ostensibly target illegal immigrants, the dragnet fairly indiscriminately causes immense hardships to all immigrants regardless of legal status. It breaks up families, it puts people in a constant state of fear, it creates situations where racial profiling can't help but happen. I submit that we would not let this kind of hardship be allowed to happen to any other group of innocent people in the name of upholding the law. I think law enforcement and politicians get away with it, because immigrants from some countries are considered de facto second-class citizens.

3) In my neighborhood again, there live many immigrants from the Soviet union who were given visas for political reasons. No question that many under the Soviets suffered and deserve to go to the country of their choice. But why does the same logic not apply to the people of Haiti? Compared to the political terror that the Haitians have endured, the Soviet immigrants were leaving a paradise. No, instead, the Haitian immigration into the US for many is basically labelled "illegal" and those people are viewed as criminals. They have done nothing wrong except try to flee to a place where they can lead a better life. But there is a double standard, and again it is not about the legal status but about discrimination against the people themselves. A similar case can be made for El Salvador and Honduras where masses of people are living under terrible political conditions. In Mexico, many of the intended immigrants are families whose livelihoods have been destroyed by US trade agreements. If your family's business was suddenly wiped out, you would try to feed them as well. No one wants to cross a desert at night and leave their home to go elsewhere.

4)If the President and Congress said tomorrow that immigration could continue unrestricted--that is all immigration would now be legal--would people now be satisfied? After all, there would no longer be illegal immigrants. The argument "but they're breaking the law" would no longer exist. And yet I think we would both agree that there would still be anti-immigrant movements. Maybe even more. Clearly there is something more than the abstract legal status of immigrants that is troubling to many.

Anyway that's a few points to ponder.


Thanks for taking the time to post such a lengthy and thought-out reply (especially twice!). I agree in part, and disagree in part, and I'll probably respond at length tomorrow.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, tommy wrote:
It's a matter of fact, not opiniom old boy. You can read their report and if you don't like it, you can lunp it.

Thanks, but I have also read Mein Kampf, a book that outlines the Nazi theories of racial and cultural purity. Amazingly enough, it echoes the theories that you evidently believe as well, if we are to believe your latest posting.
tommy
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What I was talking about was The Royal Institute of International Affairs reports from their 1930s meetings. Where they discussed what they called world integration or something like that. Which was is a plan of mass immigration into all the Western countries by the end of the century and on. They had representatives there from every British Commonwealth country and other non-commonwealth countries, like the United States, Canada and all. They talked of the numbers from different countries, how many Britain would take and from where and all that. The point I was making about it was that they went into the problems foresaw in it all. The said culture clashes were bound to cause trouble. In short they did not want their policy blamed for it so for their politically reasons they said they could blame the people under the cloak racism. None of which means that racism does not exist but means these people, who long plan all this stuff, they are very tricky.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, tommy wrote:
In the 1930s the people who planned the mass mixing we see today pondered. Way back then they perfectly understood it would cause culture clashes and trouble. They said that they could get over it by calling it racism. Nothing new in all this, no nations, no borders, one people, one world government idea. You are an old man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk


Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, landmark wrote:
For one who is so obsessed with the Nazi Muslim brotherhood, I find it fascinating that you uphold their theories about race and culture mixing. Good job, young man.


Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, tommy wrote:
It's a matter of fact, not opiniom old boy. You can read their report and if you don't like it, you can lunp it.


Good lord, tommy. We've always known you were a bit dotty, but this is foul.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, tommy wrote:
In the 1930s the people who planned the mass mixing we see today pondered. Way back then they perfectly understood it would cause culture clashes and trouble. They said that they could get over it by calling it racism. Nothing new in all this, no nations, no borders, one people, one world government idea. You are an old man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk


You see the white guy in the picture up there? He's married to a black woman, he has several "mixed" kids. Go ahead, say something else.
Smile
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
tommy
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The we you refer to I have always known were of a communist mind set.

You see people as black and white, which make you racist. Whereas I see culture differences, which cause trouble, which makes me practical. So you go ahead and say something more about colour of people Ed.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ed rhodes
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"The we you refer to" - I didn't refer to any "we," I referred to your claim that "inter-mixing" is the problem in the world and pointed out my place in it.

I didn't marry my wife because or in spite of the fact that she's black. I married her because I knew from High School that she was my soul mate... it took a little longer for her to realize it.


I'm not the one claiming that "culture mixing" is the trouble in the world. I'm the one who fell in love with someone of a different race, married her and had children. You don't get to play the moral high ground card with me.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
tommy
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The “we” is directed at John's “we’ve” above and nothing to do with you Ed.

The mass mixing we see today pondered, refers to mixing of culture: Culture, is the collective customs or behaviour of different peoples from different places. Which has nothing to do with the colour of people or race. When you put people with different collective customs or behaviour in the same country on mass, then you naturally will get culture clashes. They, your government reps in 1930s reports said that in their reports. They also said for political reasons they could put that trouble caused from the culture down to racism. Now if you think that is kooki then you must think its your government that is kooki because it's your kooki government rep that said it. As can you see I nor they mention colour or marriage. Obviously it is your misrepresentation of the word mixing which got you confused.


On Oct 11, 2014, tommy wrote:
In the 1930s the people who planned the mass mixing we see today pondered. Way back then they perfectly understood it would cause culture clashes and trouble. They said that they could get over it by calling it racism. Nothing new in all this, no nations, no borders, one people, one world government idea. You are an old man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk

Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, tommy wrote:
What I was talking about was The Royal Institute of International Affairs reports from their 1930s meetings. Where they discussed what they called world integration or something like that. Which was is a plan of mass immigration into all the Western countries by the end of the century and on. They had representatives there from every British Commonwealth country and other non-commonwealth countries, like the United States, Canada and all. They talked of the numbers from different countries, how many Britain would take and from where and all that. The point I was making about it was that they went into the problems foresaw in it all. The said culture clashes were bound to cause trouble. In short they did not want their policy blamed for it so for their politically reasons they said they could blame the people under the cloak racism. None of which means that racism does not exist but means these people, who long plan all this stuff, they are very tricky.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ed rhodes
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My apologies then. But then what's your suggestion? Lock each culture in it's own area (ohh, what's that word, I know; ghetto) and keep them completely apart?
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Dannydoyle
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Ed to be fair many cultures have their own places which are not ghettos at all.

You may continue arguing now.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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What is your point of bringing up the whole "cultural mixing" bit, then, tommy? If it's satire or commentary, I've failed to catch it.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, ed rhodes wrote:
My apologies then. But then what's your suggestion? Lock each culture in it's own area (ohh, what's that word, I know; ghetto) and keep them completely apart?


Why does there have to be a "suggestion"? Can't there just be an observation that culture clash can cause problems?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Ed to be fair many cultures have their own places which are not ghettos at all.

You may continue arguing now.


Granted, it's only a ghetto is they're required to stay in it. I don't see how else we're going to avoid Tommy's "cultural mixing" if we don't do that.

BTW, am I in trouble because I'm on this thread AND watching a Japanese cartoon (anime) about swimming called "Free"? - I've discovered the Japanese like to throw odd English phrases in their opening themes. (I actually noticed it first in "Inuyasha" where the theme opens with; "I want to chane the world" and then "Azumanga Diaoh" where the line "cake for you" pops up out of nowhere. I also know there was a pop tune called, "Yatta" which opens with; "It's so easy, happy go lucky."
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
tommy
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My personal view is, if you want to operate efficiently, if you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there. The fastest cars are not aerodynamic for nothing.

If you don't want to operate efficiently then go to America speak Sputnik and drive a car that looks like a box. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, ed rhodes wrote:
My apologies then. But then what's your suggestion? Lock each culture in it's own area (ohh, what's that word, I know; ghetto) and keep them completely apart?


Why does there have to be a "suggestion"? Can't there just be an observation that culture clash can cause problems?


Observation is all about the observer. Similarly empiricism conveys the values of its empire.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2014, ed rhodes wrote:
My apologies then. But then what's your suggestion? Lock each culture in it's own area (ohh, what's that word, I know; ghetto) and keep them completely apart?


Why does there have to be a "suggestion"? Can't there just be an observation that culture clash can cause problems?


Because upon observing that something causes a problem, the general idea is that the problem should be solved.
So, how does this problem get solved?
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
LobowolfXXX
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Sometimes problems are just inherent. Or the least of evils.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
RNK
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Quote:
On Sep 28, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
And a long time ago I asked you for any PROOF of WMDs found in Irag.

There is none, the statement of an anonymous veteran notwithstanding. (Funny that he never said anything about that to the press, or they would have been all over it, as would the Bush administration.)

There were no WMDs found in Iraq. Even Bush himself finally admitted that.


WMD's, Chemical weapons found in Iraq- please read: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/......ews&_r=0


As I stated previously- a Veteran of the war told me there were WMD they found in Iraq. As stated in the above article, "American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act"
Magnus Eisengrim
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Abandoned weapon fragments are not what I'd call WMDs. That's a bit like saying that there's an American stockpile of atomic weapons on the Kwajalein Atoll.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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