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NYCTwister
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This is a bit of a rant, and since I know how much people just love it when I "go off", I figured it was just fair to give warning

I stumbled onto this in a thread I started about costumed characters of all things -

https://www.vocativ.com/world/isis-2/isi......page=all

To start let me say that I am not given to either fear mongering or paranoia regarding terrorism, especially regarding possible attacks in America. This however has given me pause, not that there is anything I, or any other "average citizen" can do about it directly.

I know that other organizations have issued calls to action from these "lone wolves", and so far we've been lucky, the marathon bombings not withstanding.
I have unbelieveable respect for all the true patriots who work tirelessly to keep these maniacs at bay.

I consider myself patriotic. However I believe that America has brought a lot of what we're dealing with upon ourselves due to our ridiculous foreign policy. We've set ourselves up as the police of the world, constantly involving ourselves in the affairs of other countries. We say that we're doing it for the greater good, but that is only a small part of the truth, if any of it is.

I've long since come to the conclusion that we need to mind our own business. I believe democracy is the best system humanity has, but that doesn't give us the right to impose it on others. For any reason.

I'm not saying that our actions are the cause of all the porblems of the world, but let's not beat our chests and claim we're the best when our actions show differently.

We say we're doing it to help the helpless, but even if that were the truth we never seem to do them any lasting good. Saddam was a monster but the are Iraqi people better off now? I'd argue that they are worse off. Much worse.

I could cite example after example going back to the Vietnam war. Every time we get involved we only hurt ourselves. Countless American lives and trillions of dollars for what?

If we'd spent the money we've wasted in Iraq on our education system, or our infrastructure we'd be far better off. That's only one example. How much have we spent in total? How many lives needlessly wasted for nothing?

We are in unimaginable debt. I can't wrap my mind around what a trillion dollars is, yet we borrow money at ridiculous rates to spend on more weapons, more conflicts, more stupidity. Let's not even get into all the foreign "aid' we throw down a rat hole every year.

I'm not naive. I know that our stated reasons for our interference are not the real ones. Slowly but surely our government has been corrupted to the point where it's being openly bought and sold.

Corporations have the same rights as individual people and they can essentially donate unlimited amounts to political candidates? Yeah, that's what democracy is. My level of disgust is off the charts, not that my disgust matters.

Which brings me back to I.S.I.S. To me they are a natural reaction to our involvement in Iraq and other places. Cut off one head, for whatever reason and two more, much worse than the original, takes it's place.

America and the rest of the world is not going through a financial crisis, or a military crisis, or a population crisis. We are going through a moral crisis. We have been for a long, long time and it's getting worse.

People with unfathomable power to affect the lives of others are running amok all over the world. These so called leaders talk an talk while we all skip happily towrds the edge, staring at our phones.

As I said I believe democracy is the best system for people to live together, but it can never be imposed on others. At one time we were an example, deservedly so to a great degree. An example is all we should ever try to be.

This country needs a real leader. Someone who isn't tied to anyone else's interest or agendas. Someone who puts the interests of this country first in all matters. Not that we shouldn't know what's going on in the rest of the world, or empathize. It's that we have our own problems to deal with and they're getting worse. That isn't fear mongering. To me it's fact.

The republican party and the democratic party are both FUBAR. There is no one in either party that isn't a criminal, an incompetent, a coward, or a dam fool, as far as I'm concerned.

We need a new party, the American party. And we need it now.

Thanks for reading my naive, ridiculous rant.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
RNK
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I agree that both the Democratic and Republican parties are screwed up and majority need to be replaced. I do agree about the debt but it's not just a result of wars costing us- it's useless government programs that are not properly overseen, it's the increase in assistance given out by the government aiding in Americans laziness taking away the incentive to work, the hefty salaries of our government officials and their pension packages when they only serve one term and still get healthcare forever paid by us. This is the first time in history that our government has not yet passed a budget since the current administration has been in office (2008). Not passing blame on one particular party either just stating that a budget still has not been passed since 2008 because there is no Bi-partisan agreement.

We are in a moral crisis- a major contributing factor to this would be TV. Look at the useless CRAP on TV and some of the sickening shows, i.e. MTV- Teen Moms, Jersey Shore, VH1- nude dating show etc.... Local television stations airing shows like Jerry Springer and Modern Family- show about a dysfunctional family and viewers think it's cool and funny. The more people watch this crap the more they think it's a normal way of life.

As far as America being the police- well remember- we did not begin this MAJOR intrusion of other countries until WE were attacked by terrorists in 2001. Yes- I understand some believe we should have never went to Iraq blah blah blah.... Point is- we know Suddam and Iraq was a safe haven for Al-Qaida terrorists not to mention the chemical weapon labs in Iraq that could create biological weapons within weeks if they had to. Some disagree there was WMD's in Iraq and some believe there was- I don't think we will never know the truth. Point is- the terrorists put the pedal to the metal when they attacked America in 2001 and outright stated that western culture needs to be destroyed and replaced by Sharia Law which is definitely laws NOT equaling freedom for all!

America now has no choice but to DESTROY these sickening extreme radical muslims who think their way SHOULD be the way of the whole world. It is THEM who are trying to impose their laws and beliefs to the WORLD. It is they who suppress woman and their roles in life. It is they who BEHEAD and STONE fellow people of not just opposite faith but their OWN faith for much less crimes than what it takes to get put to death here in America.

Further- we ARE an example- that's why so many people are trying to enter our country because Americans are FREE and have the OPPORTUNITY to better themselves (which is slowly being taken away, but nevertheless still possible).

Thank God America is and always will be the strongest nation in the world and that we have the power and might to defend and ultimately destroy these sickening people and anyone who wants to try and take away our freedoms God Blessed us with!

RNK
tommy
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Nope, you do not have a morale crisis, what you have is an oil crisis.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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RNK
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On Sep 18, 2014, tommy wrote:
Nope, you do not have a morale crisis, what you have is an oil crisis.


Yes- this to! If we would just tap into our own HUGE oil reserves here and become energy independent for a while the rest of the world would notice that we do not NEED to purchase their oil but choose to buy it which helps the global economy.
landmark
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Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.
RNK
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On Sep 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
Oxymoron:
Imposing deomocracy.


Imposing democracy = Liberating the oppressed and suffering
Magnus Eisengrim
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Don't know about you guys, but I'm having a hard time evaluating the depth of the ISIL threat. Is it huge? Is it tiny? Where's the trustworthy and responsible journalism?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Slim King
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Don't know about you guys, but I'm having a hard time evaluating the depth of the ISIL threat. Is it huge? Is it tiny? Where's the trustworthy and responsible journalism?

That's the key. With the NSA and DOJ all over the media's cell phones and Apache helicopters shooting reporters in Iraq, while a group I'd never heard of until a month or two ago, putting out A grade video's of beheadings and such ... It's pretty easy to see that the media is TAINTED to say the least. This administration was threatening prison terms to those who would not give up their sources. Media people dropping like flies. I agree ... Where is the trustworthy and responsible journalism?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
lunatik
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To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Slim King
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If 140 had the cash to leave the US and join in the fight ... How many didn't have the cash and STAYED?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
RNK
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On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
If 140 had the cash to leave the US and join in the fight ... How many didn't have the cash and STAYED?


Exactly! We must be more diligent then we have ever been in confronting and during whatever it takes to destroy them or dismantle them to a degree where they understand that they will never destroy us. I don't think these radical extremist muslims will ever totally go away. But I at this point- I feel we do not a have a choice but to pursue, seek and destroy them as aggressively as possible.
Slim King
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Do you think destroying all of these fighters will stop their desire for a Caliphate?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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How many did it take to pull off 9/11?

Numbers are not relevant.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
How many did it take to pull off 9/11?

Numbers are not relevant.

I agree Danny ... And while we are at it ... Where are the recruitment centers where these guys sign up?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
lunatik
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


I believe the estimates in around 500? I may be off though. That is how many I believe that have left their country of origin to join them to fight. If we only had let's say 20 in the U.S., think of how much damage they could do. They can do a lot of damage to our normal daily lives by attacking a bunch of grocery stores and malls throughout the entire United States. If done properly, a lot of people won't want to do their normal shopping out in public if they can help it. Amazon and Ebay may benefit from that though. Just creating mass hysteria can do a world of hurt on our economy.
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Pecan_Creek
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Do you think destroying all of these fighters will stop their desire for a Caliphate?


Well, I would suppose so, unless they can have a Zombie Caliphate.

Should we make sure that all the kill shots are head shots?
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


I believe the estimates in around 500? I may be off though. That is how many I believe that have left their country of origin to join them to fight. If we only had let's say 20 in the U.S., think of how much damage they could do. They can do a lot of damage to our normal daily lives by attacking a bunch of grocery stores and malls throughout the entire United States. If done properly, a lot of people won't want to do their normal shopping out in public if they can help it. Amazon and Ebay may benefit from that though. Just creating mass hysteria can do a world of hurt on our economy.


[irony]Hey maybe we can reopen the internment camps? Worked so swell last time.[/irony]
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, lunatik wrote:
To me what's most worrisome is the sheer number of foreigners joining this group. It makes you wonder how many sympathizers we have in our own country that while they may not be able to visit them for training, may in fact still get enough of it online to launch an attack on our soil?


Does anyone have an estimate of the number of foreigners that have joined ISIL? Is it more than a couple of hundred?

Several thousand (some estimates are much higher) Canadians fought for the US in Vietnam. Similar numbers of Americans enlisted in the Canadian military to serve in the world wars (before American joined). The ISIL numbers are probably puny by comparison.


How many Americans enlisted in the North Vietnamese Army?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
RNK
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Do you think destroying all of these fighters will stop their desire for a Caliphate?


I doubt it. But I think if we are persistent enough and take out a huge majority as quick as we can then it may slow them down quite a bit. My thoughts are that to accomplish any gains in diminishing ISIS structure is going to require ground troops. If not- you will see what is happening in Iraq where pulling our troops out early basically handed back Iraq to the terrorists. Unfortunately, I think this is a cancer that we are going to have to deal with for the rest of this earth's life.
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