The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Fooling other magicians/mentalists (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Neb
View Profile
Regular user
102 Posts

Profile of Neb
After doing this job for 3 or 4 years I have on occasion found myself able to fool other professional magicians and mind readers.

It's not a personal ambition and I always design my act with the general public in mind.

I wondered however if being able to fool other magicians is something that is going to help in making my material much stronger in the long run?
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
It's good for the ego, but won't really help to make your material for the public any stronger. Magicians and mentalists are actually EASIER to fool than lay people. We know what they are looking for, so it's easy to lead them down the garden path by doing something that lay people wouldn't even notice.
Neb
View Profile
Regular user
102 Posts

Profile of Neb
Thanks Bob!
Martin Pulman
View Profile
Inner circle
London
3382 Posts

Profile of Martin Pulman
It seems to me that a large percentage of effects released over the last few years have actually been designed to fool fellow mentalists, so seldom are they true advances on existing methods. I sometimes wonder if the majority of mentalists actually just perform for each other.
Neb
View Profile
Regular user
102 Posts

Profile of Neb
I've found a decent amount of the material by Pete Turner and Colin Mcleod very practical in real world scenarios. Some of it is so strong I use it in most performances.
Steven Keyl
View Profile
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
2577 Posts

Profile of Steven Keyl
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
It seems to me that a large percentage of effects released over the last few years have actually been designed to fool fellow mentalists


That is most likely a by-product of how we decide to buy a commercial effect rather than being an explicit end goal. In other words, there is a tendency to buy things that fool us. Relatively little attention is paid to the actual effect and how we might tailor it to suit our individual needs. Those things that fool us also tend to fool our peers, although I don't think that's the primary motivation for the "average" purchase.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17665 Posts

Profile of Slim King
The Piddington's often invited magicians and mentalists to come to their shows. I remember when Jim Callahan fooled Criss Angel and Criss melted down on national TV ... That was funny! Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Chaz93
View Profile
Inner circle
Texas
1531 Posts

Profile of Chaz93
I thought it was Jim who had the melt down
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
It seems to me that a large percentage of effects released over the last few years have actually been designed to fool fellow mentalists, soillusion of mentalism requires
seldom are they true advances on existing methods. I sometimes wonder if the majority of mentalists actually just perform for each other.


Actually, if that is true - and it may well be - then the majority of mentalists aren't. That's because the effectiveness of mentalism requires a "what if?" state of mind that cannot be created in an audience of other magicians and mentalists. They watch demonstrations. Lay people experience mentalism.

So if you only perform for mentalists, you aren't really a mentalist at all.
Amirá
View Profile
Inner circle
MentalismCenter.com
5134 Posts

Profile of Amirá
If you perform for your peers, surely for your own entertainment you can work in that type of thinking. I am consulting a performer´s friend for a performance in a magic competition and one of the factors to reach is leave them speachless regarding method.

For my own personal work, I really don't care.
I don't perform for performers and I hope that my sharing of ideas is beyond core methodology and reach different levels of introspection.


Best
Pablo
Performer and Author

Mentalism Center: The best online space to get quality Mentalism
www.mentalismcenter.com

Arkanosophy: The Boutique for Mystery Performers
www.arkanosophy.com
robwar0100
View Profile
Inner circle
Buy me some newspapers.Purchase for me 1 Gazette and
1748 Posts

Profile of robwar0100
I am not a "magician's magician," I am a performer. I like what Bob has to say.

I have found that some of the classics with basic methods can fry today's magicians. This is because they are looking for the latest and greatest and ignore the classics.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
Rolyan
View Profile
Special user
I'm fencing in my land; so far there are
584 Posts

Profile of Rolyan
Fooling other magicians/mentalists is easy. Its not even open to debate.

The only question is does it enhance your performance for 'lay people'.
morgaine_le_fey
View Profile
Veteran user
Montreal, Canada
395 Posts

Profile of morgaine_le_fey
Quote:
On Sep 25, 2014, robwar0100 wrote:
I am not a "magician's magician," I am a performer. I like what Bob has to say.

I have found that some of the classics with basic methods can fry today's magicians. This is because they are looking for the latest and greatest and ignore the classics.

Bobby


Hear hear!
I find that, in traditional magic, the strongest effect can still today be obtained with thumb tips, forcing a card and the likes.
In mentalism, same story. A substatial part of my redundant purchases is rehash (and often poorly executed rehash) of solid traditional wholesome thinking.
Martin Pulman
View Profile
Inner circle
London
3382 Posts

Profile of Martin Pulman
I think Bob is spot on. Mentalists can actually be fooled more easily in certain circumstances because our thought process in relation to mentalism effects is easier to predict. I was totally bamboozled by an effect I was shown at International Magic in London a few weeks ago. I was so busy looking out for traditional methodology that I missed the blatant scam that was pulled right under my nose. I guess sometimes a lot of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
vinh.giang
View Profile
Regular user
Australia
132 Posts

Profile of vinh.giang
Wow this is such a brilliant post, I used to only want to perform for magicians and as a result of this I focused on all the wrong things and became a magicians magician. Great work on fooling the magicians but as Bob said it really doesn't help making the magic any better for lay people. Like they say the best way to get better at cooking is to cook, the best way to get better at performing for lay people is to perform for more lay people Smile

Good luck my friend!
"Rather a mind opened by wonder, than one closed by belief."
_________________________________

www.vinhgiang.com.au
www.facebook.com/askvinh
www.twitter.com/askvinh
Mark_Chandaue
View Profile
Inner circle
Essex UK
3755 Posts

Profile of Mark_Chandaue
Magicians are the easiest people on the planet to fool because they will generally look for complicated methods and overlook the patently bleeding obvious. Their own knowledge gets in the way that's why a one way deck will fly past a magician far easier than it will by a layman. If read in print most magicians/mentalists would probably say that the ACAAN Pete Turner opened his lecture with would never fly, yet it fooled us all.

In my youth I used to prefer performing to magicians, not to fool them, but because only a magician could appreciate the skill involved in some of the coin work that I had put in 8 hours a day to make invisible. To a layman, nothing happened but magicians could appreciate the effort that had been put in.

When I wanted to fool magicians I would generally use the simplest methods. I had a reputation for performing a very clean copper silver routine with borrowed coins, the real secret was an invisible switch and the standard gaff that every magician is familiar with. Those old enough to have seen my borrowed c/s routine, the cat is out of the bag and the switch involved is going to be published in the not too distant future.

The moral of the story is that the term "magician fooler" might be a good marketing hook but fooling laymen (if fooling should even be our aim) is a lot harder.

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk
Harpacrown Too is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=harpacrown-too
Ophiuchus is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=ophiuchus
Totally Free Will is available from
http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=totally-free-will
Randwill
View Profile
Inner circle
1915 Posts

Profile of Randwill
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2014, Chaz93 wrote:
I thought it was Jim who had the melt down

Wow. Slim's cognitive dissonance at its best. Anyone can look at the video of that and see the reality.
Fire Starter
View Profile
Inner circle
4330 Posts

Profile of Fire Starter
Quote:
On Sep 25, 2014, morgaine_le_fey wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 25, 2014, robwar0100 wrote:
I am not a "magician's magician," I am a performer. I like what Bob has to say.

I have found that some of the classics with basic methods can fry today's magicians. This is because they are looking for the latest and greatest and ignore the classics.

Bobby


Hear hear!
I find that, in traditional magic, the strongest effect can still today be obtained with thumb tips, forcing a card and the likes.
In mentalism, same story. A substatial part of my redundant purchases is rehash (and often poorly executed rehash) of solid traditional wholesome thinking.


I find that, in traditional magic, the strongest effect can still today be obtained with thumb tips.



Very true I have been messing with mind's and that is just using the paddle move,simple but so effective.
Stefmagic
View Profile
Special user
523 Posts

Profile of Stefmagic
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2014, Neb wrote:
I've found a decent amount of the material by Pete Turner and Colin Mcleod very practical in real world scenarios. Some of it is so strong I use it in most performances.
don't forget to check the real master of our craft like Cassidy, Osterlind, Maven,...

Nothing hype about thoses guys but, the real gems are there...
Sensio
View Profile
Special user
I promise I won't exceed
638 Posts

Profile of Sensio
Quote:
On Sep 25, 2014, Rolyan wrote:
Fooling other magicians/mentalists is easy. Its not even open to debate.

The only question is does it enhance your performance for 'lay people'.


Exactly!
This fooling theme is so egoistical that is actually the opposite of entertainment.
See my muscles!!!! Look how big they are!!!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Fooling other magicians/mentalists (13 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.59 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL