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HudsonView New user 98 Posts |
An interesting film on what happened to yellowstone national park after they reintroduced wolves back into the environment after 70 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q#t=257
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Can't believe this went by without comment. It's a fascinating and wonderful video. Maybe embedding the vid will help.
It just goes to show that when you invite Albertans to a party, everything just keeps getting better
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16532 Posts |
Where have all the Sheeple gone, long time passing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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HudsonView New user 98 Posts |
I was surprised too Magnus. With all this talk about the environment, this incredible video and story shows how precious the balance of nature is and how introducing one element can have incredible unforseen consequences on the environment.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Well, I've been busy. I note that you yourself, Hudson View didn't say much about the clip in the first place. My initial thought on seeing the thread title, and I haven't viewed the clip you posted yet, was this:
I'll check your clip out tomorrow and maybe then I'll have more to say. Thanks for the topic. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Part of the issue could be, the original posted link seems to go straight to the end credits for several seconds and that's it. One could just hit replay, I suppose. That's assuming they bother to hit the link in the first place, of course. Now I'll look at the embedded version.
None of this is rocket science. It's called the circle of life. Why do you think the wolves were reintroduced? They did the same thing for the environment there before they were wiped out. People are messing with environments around the world and everyone considers it absolutely fascinating that everything is connected and relative. Human psychology. Astounding. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Excellent video that shows just hos important wolves actually are.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Well, obviously, they're here for a reason, Bob. And they affect and effect things. Everyone does. They are part of what is. And when you take them out, the "is" changes, naturally. Is that some kind of novel discovery, here?
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wwhokie1 Special user 512 Posts |
There is a wolf preserve about an hour and a half from where I live. Incredible animals. And very misunderstood.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 5, 2014, magicalaurie wrote: Not novel at all for me, Laurie. I've long been a supporter of wolf conservation efforts here in Washington State and wish that those who think nothing of shooting wolves would pay more attention to the fact that they have an essential role in our ecosystem. (As does every other creature.) Watching Caribou Barbie shooting them from a helicopter made me sick. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Just stating the obvious then, Bob. I see. Thought so.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Sadly, it's not obvious to many.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Doing some research for new magic presentations and came across this interesting article here: http://www.nature.com/news/rethinking-pr......-1.14841 which especially supports my third statement in this thread, which, as I said, I think was simply stating the obvious. Some slightly detailed illustration here:
"Questions have also emerged about the well-publicized relationship between wolves and willows. Marshall and two colleagues investigated the controls on willow shrubs by examining ten years’ worth of data from open plots and plots surrounded by cages to keep the elk out. Her team found8 that the willows were not thriving in all the protected sites. The only plants that grew above 2 metres — beyond the reach of browsing elk — were those in areas where simulated beaver dams had raised the water table. If beavers have a key role in helping willows to thrive, as Marshall’s study suggests, the shrubs face a tough future because the park’s beaver populations have dropped. Researchers speculate that the removal of wolves in the 1920s allowed elk to eat so much willow that there was none left for the beavers, causing an irreversible decline. 'The predator was gone for at least 70 years,' says Marshall. 'Removing it has changed the ecosystem in fundamental ways.' This work suggests that wolves did meaningfully structure the Yellowstone ecosystem a century ago, but that reintroducing them cannot restore the old arrangement. Arthur Middleton, a Yale ecologist who works on Yellowstone elk, says that such studies have disproved the simple version of the trophic cascade story. The wolves, elk and vegetation exist in an ecosystem with hundreds of other factors, many of which seem to be important, he says." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Can anyone name a creature in an ecosystem without a roll to be played?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: I'm not thrilled with the (100 or so) cold viruses. Meh. Achoo. Sniff.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Still a roll to be played. The Zebra may not like the roll the lion plays but it is still a roll.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I will say the video contradicts the article somewhat regarding the "irreversible decline" of beavers. So, I'll look into that a little further. I'm looking to incorporate wolves, grizzlies, elk, moose, and beavers into my show. I wasn't expecting to have wolves and beavers in the same presentation, so I've expanded my own horizons already.
I'll let one of the others address the "rolls" |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/02/yello......-beavers
"Marshall and her team also measured the height of 113 willows in the northern range that were not part of the experimental or control plots. They found that a plot of the trees' heights in 2010 strongly resembled a plot of willow heights in 1990, 5 years before wolves were reintroduced. The researchers argue that these results show that there aren't many more tall willows now than there were before wolves came back. 'This is a really well-executed and convincing study,' says ecologist Scott Creel of Montana State University in Bozeman. 'They make a pretty compelling argument that … you can't just send [the ecosystem] back the way it came.' The paper 'demonstrates that it isn't just wolves and elk in that system -- it's much more complicated,' adds University of Alberta ecologist Mark Boyce, who has studied various species at Yellowstone's. 'There are many connections among various species … that influence the recovery.' Not everyone is convinced. Riparian ecologist Robert Beschta of Oregon State University, Corvallis, who also researches post-wolf recovery at Yellowstone but did not contribute to the new study, points out that the willows in the Marshall team's control plots—undammed, unfenced, but subject to wolf patrols—did grow slightly taller over the 10-year study period. 'Recovery of heavily degraded ecosystems takes time,' he says. 'They set the bar very high by saying, 'This system hasn't recovered yet (with) wolves, and therefore the effect of wolves is maybe minimal or non-existent.' ' All agree, however, that beavers might help the willows and riparian zones make a comeback. But until willows are vigorous, beavers could starve. It's hard to see a way out of this 'chicken-and-egg' problem, Marshall says. Perhaps if Yellowstone got a very wet year, encouraging willow growth, combined with a year that saw a low level of elk browsing, beavers could establish a foothold in the small streams of the northern range, as they have in other parts of the park. 'It's feasible that it could happen on its own,' she says." http://www.businessinsider.com/yellowsto......s-2015-7 "Jul. 13, 2015... Beavers, too, suffered from the initial decline of wolves and rise of elk, as elk out-competed beavers for food — particularly willow and aspen trees — leading to the near-elimination of beavers and their dams from the park. As beaver dams disappeared, so did the wetlands and streams they supported — and these are the areas that suffer most today. Wolf reintroduction has helped beaver populations somewhat: Today, people again spot beavers along the larger rivers. Unfortunately, those rivers are too big for beavers to dam, and beavers remain absent from the smaller waterways that they can dam. Meanwhile, the plant communities along those streams remain damaged.... But it's not too late to give up hope on the beavers. Wolves returned 20 years ago and much of their effect is only being seen now, so this type of recovery takes a long time. The beavers could still make a comeback and finish restoring Yellowstone." Sorted that out, for now. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: It's a useful role for the population and for the ecosystem. But not so much for the individual zebra. Rather like many of our current political debates.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Ya but cater too much to the individual Zebra and pretty soon you are over run with them and absolutely begging for the lion to show up.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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