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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The value of secrets... (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Brandon Queen
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How much better would the performance world be if every single mentalist and magician who has ever created anything, never publicly released their material and just kept it secret and performed it themselves?
It occured to me at once that love could be a great illusion, that makes fools of brilliant thinkers everyday
LBP MAGIC
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It'd get rid of a lot of bad performers which would be a good thing. It'd be better if the magicians and mentalists that buy that material could keep that secret. What a crazy and ludicrous idea that is though.......
E.E.
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That would push our creativity in order to success in the bussiness,would be awesome.
I shall see you on the other side.
Galileo
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I disagree, to some extent I feel there Mentalist sharing there thoughts and creations with other DEDICATED ( Emphasis on dedicated) mentalists also breeds it's own kind of creativity where creators can co-create and help improve on each others ideas. Many effects these days come with variations for different handling created by other performers, sometimes these are better then the original or more suited for a different environment which allows you to adapt an effect. I want everyone to genuinely imagine they had never read 13 steps, practical mental effects, or psychological subtleties, do you genuinely think you would have come up with all the ideas and techniques you use in your everyday performances? This may just be me as I am by no means the worlds most innovative performer and I'm sure my act would be a fraction of what it is today had I not been able to use other people effects, props, and principles.I do think it is a genuinely interesting and thought provoking question to think about though.
j100taylor
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There wouldn't be a critical mass and the art would die.
Lakewood, Ohio
jossien2000
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The world are, much or less, build upon "lessons learned"-principal, so we don´t have to invent the wheel over and over again Smile And with that in mind, I think that is what make many of you guys better, because you need to work harder, present your work better, or even try invent yourself and pass it on for even more perfection Smile

What I am trying to say is, this forum, and the contributing members in here, are the reason why I took up my old hobby again. And i´m getting inspiration form you guys everyday Smile so please share Smile

Old tricks -New wrapping - love it Smile
Galileo
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Quote:
On Sep 28, 2014, jossien2000 wrote:
The world are, much or less, build upon "lessons learned"-principal, so we don´t have to invent the wheel over and over again Smile And with that in mind, I think that is what make many of you guys better, because you need to work harder, present your work better, or even try invent yourself and pass it on for even more perfection Smile

What I am trying to say is, this forum, and the contributing members in here, are the reason why I took up my old hobby again. And i´m getting inspiration form you guys everyday Smile so please share Smile

Old tricks -New wrapping - love it Smile


I agree not needing to invent the wheel again is what allows us to BUILD upon each others work instead of each having to individually start from scratch. Look at the field of science if people never shared there discoveries we would have probably never landed on the moon.
Scott Soloff
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There was a time not too long ago when secrets were 1/ relatively closely guarded and 2/ too an effort to acquire. It is a lovely idea from a different time. Unfortunately, that cow is out of the barn and I doubt if can ever be forced back in.

In that case, the question is what can be done from this point forward to protect what we do and simultaneously encourage creativity.

I'm asking because I really don't know.

Best to all,


Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
phillsmiff
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Everyone would have to reinvent the wheel constantly. I feel I've created and innovated a few things and I know there are people I consider to be excellent performers who use a few of my ideas - but I am under no illusions that my work is based on everything else I have learned. For example: without Fulves and Lewis Jones my ACAAN simply wouldn't exist. I personally think that magic and mentalism would be dead ends if you could only perform your own stuff and could never know anyone else's secrets to develop from.

It's also worth remembering that the skills required to create and develop an effect or method and the skills required to perform mentalism in an artful and engaging way overlap very little. Me cooking up a principle by sitting down with a book and writing out numbers and spending days trying to see the connections between them and me getting up on stage and being charismatic and using that principle to entertain a crowd are two completely different things.

Some people focus on creating methods, and others dedicate their lives to presenting them, in the same way that there are singers and songwriters and the skills involved are often quite different. Some people would argue that there is a truth in singers who write their own material but in allowing only that and forbidding people from singing other's songs you would lose performers like Elvis, who was an incredible performer but sang songs others had written for him. I think the same is true of much of our art.

It is an interesting idea though.

Phill
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-+: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/phillsmith/incredible-magic-with-the-neural-miracle-playing-cards :+-
george1953
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I agree with Scott, it wasn't so long ago that you really had to search for information on our art. This had the advantage that only those that were truly interested and dedicated would take the trouble and time to find the information, not the merely curious as happens these days thanks to the internet and YouTube.
I too think its too late to reverse the trend.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
Brandon Queen
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To Clarify, if every creative mind in our industry never released anything "publicly" but still shared their ideas with only those select few whom they trusted. Also bare in mind that a good majority of creators aren't the best performers and vice versa. So then imagine every great performer had a tight knit working relationship with like 3 or 4 great creators and they only shared those secrets amongst each other. Maybe once in a while one "team" would barter secrets with another "team". I wish it still worked that way. Actually it still does to an extent. There are a lot of things I share with my close friends and peers and they share with me that no body knows and probably will never know. I often ask myself, why bother sharing outside of my circle? Just something I've been thinking about.
It occured to me at once that love could be a great illusion, that makes fools of brilliant thinkers everyday
IAIN
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Ego levels of some performers/creators would go down
less copycats
less one upmanship
less arguing over who invented what and when
everyone performing the same kinds of things with similar presentations
possible stagnation
possible creativity upsurgence
less people interested in magic and mentalism
less people performing
less regular people getting to experience magic and mentalism
no sense of community
upsurgence of infighting
performers stealing more from other performers
less sense of a fraternity
most performers not having friends in the trade
distrust
lack of advancement of older presentations and methods
the risk that people would see magic and mentalism as a bygone thing and completely expose it for historical value
less fun
creative people might not be able to find another outlet
loads more...

for me, its brought connections with others, true friends, fun, unique experiences, performing, sharing, collaborating, learning so much, being told stories, seeing some huge egos compete with other huge egos - some liars, some manipulators, so great times, so sighing, some laughing, amazement, sharing, some creating and even more learning... its been a very strange and often hilarious ride, mixed in with sadness, annoyance, disbelief and friendship... bit like real life - whatever that is...

i think you can release stuff without being blatant about it, and without having to oversell it, get friends to constantly hype pages for you, (or defend you) - and you can be honest about the "you" that you are, and still get on... a lot of the bad side of this field can just be examined, laughed at, and moved on/away from...there are a few game players out there, but that's their problem, not mine... so keep your friends close, and your enemies...meh...forget about 'em, let them fester in their own oily juices...
I've asked to be banned
IAIN
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Eternal Order
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I posted the above without seeing brandon's latest post...
I've asked to be banned
Martin Pulman
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If no secrets were shared a lot of creators would go broke.
John C
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It would be the same as if scientists and doctors and researchers didn't share their research and ideas. Nothing to build on. We'd all be dead.

I think I can predict the possible reactions to this but:

1. What if Jesus never shared his teachings
2. Mohamed
3. Buddah
4. Oprah (well ok forget this one)
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On Sep 28, 2014, Brandon Queen wrote:
How much better would the performance world be if every single mentalist and magician who has ever created anything, never publicly released their material and just kept it secret and performed it themselves?


The Magic Café's Mentalism Sections would close down.

And we wouldn't be having this conversation. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Neb
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I believe it was on either Bob Cassidy or Richard Osterlinds Penguin Lecture, they suggested that if anyone asks you if you know how another magician does a trick you should say -

"I really have no idea, every magician has his own way of doing things unique to the individual"

I thought this was a really nice idea - although I've yet to say it!

If anyone asks me that question I tell them yes of course I know and then I beat them for questioning my authority.
mastermindreader
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It's easy for me to say that because I don't present myself as a magician. When someone asks how a magician accomplished something I always say, "I don't have any idea how magicians do their tricks, but I do like watching them."

Just a matter of staying consistent with my persona.
Neb
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That's great Bob, a brilliant little subtlety that should enhance what they have just seen you do.
gabelson
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Quote:
On Sep 28, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
If no secrets were shared a lot of creators would go broke.


In this case, unfortunately, "shared" could also be replaced by "stolen".
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