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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » FAKE TV MAGIC: ANGEL OR DEMON ? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Not at all. Now you are passing judgment without knowing the first thing about the background of anyone you are speaking with.

Yes we get it. You have a vested interest in this topic. Take that out of the equasion.

I know exactly what the limitations are and you haven't even covered half of them. Lighting being the most critical thing you have left out. But then again you assume I have no idea what I am talking about.

Don't hand me the nonsense that they are all fooled the first time. Lets also not leave out that you film it as many times as necessary to get the reaction you want. Yea it is a ton of work to do that admittedly.

Yea cameras don't blink, but it is a convenient excuse to shut them off and cut away from things isn't it? Then don't forget you will cut in the best of a hundred shots just to get the right reaction. Sure it is a genuine reaction but it took many many takes to get it now didn't it? Go ahead act like none of us know what we are talking about some more.

Is any of this bad for magic? I don't think anything described here is inherently"dishonest" in a way to fool a TV audience. I don't see anything wrong with it as you are trying to duplicate the live experience for the viewer. Not a bad goal.

The problem becomes when inevitably the road goes a bit further and it becomes the method. Again not the worst thing in the world. But then it becomes the ONLY method. It becomes a crutch. Then it is bad because it becomes obvious even to laymen what is going on. From that point on everything that magician ever did on TV becomes tainted. Then things others do become tainted. Does not matter if it is right or wrong it just is.

So before getting all offended and assuming everyone but you knows about production try to have a conversation.

Also just because you are fooled by a trick does not necessarily make it a camera trick. Even when edited poorly. Sometimes guys fool us and we don't want to admit it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Rocky
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Elite user
487 Posts

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Quote:
On Oct 16, 2014, Holistic Magic wrote:
I don't like fake magic. When watching entertainment on TV, the fun for me is to try and figure out the trick and if there are camera tricks and stooges then it ruins my fun. Smile


I am in the same mindset...but will also include TT.s fake coins, gimmicked decks, tricky sleight of hand, and the other ruses magicians use to convince the public that they are actually doing magic.
Aeltham
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France
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Quote:
On Oct 16, 2014, Chad Sanborn wrote:
Well until you have to film magic for a paying television show, I would withhold passing any judgement over the magician.
I've tried to explain the various obstacles that are presented to us everyday on set. And you said they are all 'excuses'
Which means you are clueless as to how television is filmed and how hard it is to incorporate live magic into that medium.



Please don't react as if I'm calling your work trash. I am fully aware of the fact that it's realy hard to make a TV special, and that the amount of work it takes is enourmous. There might be tons of obstacles, and it might be hard, but it's still not a reason just say "screw live magic" and pretend like you brought a corpse back from the dead. I mean come on, a ton of magicians do much more acceptable things, like Derren Brown or David Blaine, their stuff may not be 100% real live magic, but most of it is, while most of mind freak is stuff that just shouldn't be shown on TV. Using special effects is the easy solution. Might be hard and horrible and tought work and it make take very skilled people to put live magic on camera, but here again if you are on television you should have thoose skills, otherwise you don't deserve your place ! I believe that using special effects is not a good solution as a magician. It might be for a technician or a buisiness man but I just don't agree. I still respect the amount of work, I'll just always support other shows more, that's all.
Chad Sanborn
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Inner circle
my fingers hurt from typing,
2206 Posts

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Quote:
On Oct 16, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Not at all. Now you are passing judgment without knowing the first thing about the background of anyone you are speaking with.

Yes we get it. You have a vested interest in this topic. Take that out of the equasion.

I know exactly what the limitations are and you haven't even covered half of them. Lighting being the most critical thing you have left out. But then again you assume I have no idea what I am talking about.

Don't hand me the nonsense that they are all fooled the first time. Lets also not leave out that you film it as many times as necessary to get the reaction you want. Yea it is a ton of work to do that admittedly.

Yea cameras don't blink, but it is a convenient excuse to shut them off and cut away from things isn't it? Then don't forget you will cut in the best of a hundred shots just to get the right reaction. Sure it is a genuine reaction but it took many many takes to get it now didn't it? Go ahead act like none of us know what we are talking about some more.

Is any of this bad for magic? I don't think anything described here is inherently"dishonest" in a way to fool a TV audience. I don't see anything wrong with it as you are trying to duplicate the live experience for the viewer. Not a bad goal.

The problem becomes when inevitably the road goes a bit further and it becomes the method. Again not the worst thing in the world. But then it becomes the ONLY method. It becomes a crutch. Then it is bad because it becomes obvious even to laymen what is going on. From that point on everything that magician ever did on TV becomes tainted. Then things others do become tainted. Does not matter if it is right or wrong it just is.

So before getting all offended and assuming everyone but you knows about production try to have a conversation.

Also just because you are fooled by a trick does not necessarily make it a camera trick. Even when edited poorly. Sometimes guys fool us and we don't want to admit it.


Danny you are right! I did pass judgement and I am sorry. Its obvious you know of what you speak. And a lot of what you said is true. You film it until you get a reaction that is right for the home viewer. And again your right. As we don't always fool the person live.

But in 'real life' magic, whether its stage, close-up, restaurant, parties, etc we all do those same things. We repeat tricks over and over and relish in the times it went over great and forget the disasters. And we have all been busted palming a card or a coin or doing some other such thing. The difference is the home viewer never sees those bad times, because we edit them out. If only it was an option in real life.

I can honestly say that I have never worked on a show that used special digital effects, or actors to make a trick work. And I am proud of that!

Though we do use lots and lots of gaffs, gimmicks, hidden helpers, glue, tape, blood, sweat, and tears to get to that point. Did any of you read the cover article about Michael Carbonaro in the Nov. Magic Magazine?

I have my 15mins of fame in it as it describes very accurately the ins and outs of a day shooting magic for tv.
Everyone but Danny should read it. You may learn something.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
20435 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I have no problems with multiple takes. Why wouldn't you? I would not do a promo demo with just the first shot why should anyone have to do that with TV? I don't even mind actual camera tricks. Harry Anderson used a great one in Hello Sucker. He didn't get caught. Good by me.

When it is the only method used and it odd obvious to the world THEN it is an issue.

As I said it is not easy to create the experience of live magic for a camera. I would not enjoy the task. It would be mind boggling.

Plus it is EASY to Monday Morning Quarterback it. To criticize they results without understanding the limitations of that medium. One serious problem is not only the rewind button but the flat nature of a tv screen. Misdirection in life happens in 3D. On your TV not so. I use the whole room and subtle movements. On TV not so easy.

So so that "feel" must be duplicated. Not easy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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