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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I honestly think this is going to be horrific if the officer is not indicted. I really believe this will cause the worse riots this country has ever seen. Unfortunately even after an indictment the nation will have to face a trial and if it goes the way certain groups do not like it is again going to be horrific.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclusi......-BB83w9D Not looking for an argument here. But is the only thing that can prevent riots an indictment and conviction of the officer? I honestly do not see any other out.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
I'm not looking for an argument either. I agree aces. But if the officer was honestly justified in shooting, why would the Grand Jury indict? And if he is not indicted, then an officer should not be put on trial when he was honestly and genuinely innocent just to only appease a mob who does not care about facts and the truth but only about getting a conviction. The justice system should not cave in either when by law the officer is honestly innocent and was justified in shooting. You can't cave in to the mob.
You have to stand your ground and stay strong and be prepared to put down any riots through the use of force if necessary, including declaring military law. The law is not about appeasing the mob. It's about the truth and what is fair and just and if it requires the national guard and backing what is fair and just through military law and the use of force, then so be it. Sometimes, that's what it takes. The justice system has got to stay strong and be ready to back the law and what is right and just even if it means calling out the national guard to do so (just like it was when to enforce desegregation). If the justice system doesn't stay strong and caves in to the mob because after reviewing the facts the Grand Jury doesn't indict and finds a way to put this officer on trial anyway then others will question whether it will treat them fairly and justly or just throw them under the bus just to only appease the mob who doesn't care about truth and justice but only about getting a conviction. It will harm the trust that others have in the justice system that they will be treated fairly and justly. I also question whether this officer can get a fair trial given the heavily politicised nature of this particular incident. The officer better hope he has a good attorney defending him who will assure that any race politics is eliminated from his trial and that he simply gets a fair shake. The justice system is supposed to not be influenced by politics, but we know that politics does influence the justice system so it sometimes makes whether somebody got a fair shake and fair hearing before a grand jury or at trial questionable.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Perhaps one of the lawyers can weigh in here, but my understanding is that the standard of evidence/suspicion required for a Grand Jury to indict someone is not a particularly high standard.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Correct, Landmark. There could certainly be enough evidence to indict but not enough to convict.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
As is so often the case.
A good prosecutor can get a ham sandwich indicted. Of course a ham sandwich has some meat on it do there's that. I doubt it will help. First thing is a change of venue. Easy enough I would bet. All it will do is delay the issue and perhaps make it worse. One bad thing is that the professional problem makers are involved. That will keep things at a boiling point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
And people wonder why the store owners were backing away from the robbery as fast as possible.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: If I was a store owner located there, I would just close down shop and find a better, safer location to do business in. I wouldn't want my store to get torched or looted by rioters. It doesn't seem like a great place to have a business. It would just get looted or burned down by rioters and leave me holding the bag with all the losses. Better to pack up and leave and invest the money in a safer place where a business can thrive. It just seems to risky to do business there with all it's problems.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
? is this the first time a police officer has shot anyone in the state?
IMHO most likely the professional "pay for sensitivity training" and "get out and be counted" will do the usual. real problems are not good for business and the pros want to get paid.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I agree that if not enough to indict then don't. However if that happens you have to know there will be riots and I believe not just in Ferguson. Also indictment alone will not satisfy the mob and it's trouble makers. There are trouble makers in this all over the U.S. This is a national issue not just a Ferguson issue. I say it is going to be a cluster "you know what" no matter what happens. If it goes to trial and he does not get the maximum there is going to be an issue.
No matter the outcome the officer's life is in a shambles and will never be the same. If found innocent he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life along with trying to protect his family. As a citizen I have served on two criminal cases as a juror and I could have gotten out of jury duty both times. Having said that, there is no way you could get me to serve on this trial as a juror. At this time I can honestly say I do not know whether he is guilty or not guilty of anything. Probably that statement alone is enough to endanger your life in Ferguson. Again by no means indict the man in order to prevent riots. It is, I just believe a bomb waiting to explode no matter what happens.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2014, acesover wrote: I agree. It's definately a Charlie Foxtrot. If this police officer is not indicted or if he is indicted but found not guilty then if I was him, I certainly would be carrying a pistol as well, probably for the rest of my life. An officer should be able to defend his life when dealing with a criminal without fear of a riot breaking out afterwards. I certainly would be keeping my weapon clean, properly functioning and going to the firing range on a constant basis and prepared for anything if I was him and wasn't indicted or acquitted at trial. Really, if he is imprisoned, I hope they have prisons only for cops, because if that state doesn't, I am not so sure I'd be willing to surrender and be thrown in with a prison population ready to take me out because I was a cop. They'd have to call SWAT on me if I was a cop and was fixing to be imprisoned in a non-cop prison. I am sure there is probably a few cops out there that would feel the same way if they were thrown into that kind of situation as well. He wouldn't have much to lose, that's for sure if that is what they were going to do with him.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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No matter the outcome the officer's life is in a shambles and will never be the same Uhh, anyone else related to this case who you can think of whose lives are in shambles?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Yes and no, I mean, a revolution in America started by the CIA Nazi Muslin Brotherhood fits the bill. Which will be over by Christmas, if you go and get Uzi's for your daughters quickly perhaps.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
GM.. Here you go again. You throw out a lure and and the sharks are biting.
Dennis Michael
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, General_Magician wrote: How does one just close down a business and open somewhere whee exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2014, Dennis Michael wrote: I didn't think I was throwing out a lure but I see your point. Sorry Dennis. I am pro-cop though and sympathize with the police and the work they have to do.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I am still curious as to how you just shut down a business and open in a safer location. Does the landlord not have an agreement which precludes one from leaving prior to the end of the lease? Does the owner of the business not have a fairly large expense in looking for and opening a new location? I mean what a simplistic idea to just "open in a safer location" and think it is a solution of some sort.
If every business owner just leaves what happens to that community? What happens to the people of that community who that business services? Where do they go for what it is that particular business was supplying them? If all the business owners just leave out of fear, then when all this blows over the community is left in a MUCH worse spot then they were in prior to all of this happening. Many have roots in the community that go back for generations. The solution must be to have the community to come together, not for them to break further apart.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2014, General_Magician wrote: All that should matter in this case is the evidence and the facts. Being pro-cop or anti-cop is completely irrelevant. Why not just be "pro-justice?" |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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All that should matter in this case is the evidence and the facts. Being pro-cop or anti-cop is completely irrelevant. Why not just be "pro-justice?" That's probably a better way to look at it. I guess I'll be pro-justice. However, this shouldn't be a pro-cop, anti-cop OR white vs black issue either. And the cop should get a fair shake without race politics coming into play or just simply convicting only because it's about appeasing the mob who just want a conviction no matter what and not real justice. How can this cop be guaranteed he will be treated fairly with a mob calling for a conviction and that the justice system won't cave in to political pressure JUST to appease the mob? Mob justice is no justice adn the justice system shouldn't cave in to the mob just to appease them. If he's really guilty now based on the facts of the case, I can see him getting convicted, but when it's a white cop having to shoot a black person, I question whether that white cop will be treated fairly when you have a mob of blacks trying to apply political pressure on the system just to get the conviction while ignoring the facts of the case. The justice system should stay strong and not cave in to political pressure of the mob if the facts demonstrate that the cop is not guilty. It's just like with OJ Simpson trial. I think he was guilty and he wasn't convicted because of race politics. It was political the reason why he walked free from his murder charge. That's my personal opinion. So how can we be guaranteed this cop will be given a fair shake and not be thrown under the bus because of the race politics and the justice system caving in to political pressure to convict even if the facts were to show the cop is not guilty of a crime? And if this can be done to this cop, then who is to say it can't be done to any of us and that we can trust the justice system to treat us fairly? How can we trust the justice system to not convict us only to merely appease a mob calling for our conviction when in fact we are innocent of any crime? These are legitimate concerns for people to have.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
It's just like with OJ Simpson trial. I think he was guilty and he wasn't convicted because of race politics. Vincent Bugliosi, Charles Manson prosecutor, thinks the #1 reason OJ was found innocent was not race politics, but the shocking incompetence of the prosecution: http://www.mysterycrimescene.com/bugliosi-outrage.html and if you have lots of time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9F90DHsOdg
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
He wrote a book lambasting the prosecutors in the case. He was right.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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