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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Best Rock Album Ever (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
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On Oct 19, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
We're just a bunch of racist, sexist pigs. Homophobic, too. I mean, Queen is on the list, but where is Judas Priest? Where is Elton John?

Judas Priest is metal, not rock.


Metal is a sub genre of rock.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magic_son
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Beatles / Queen / Rolling Stones Help change music as we know it. Seems like those British dudes know what their doing!
In the 80's you have to give Journey props! Believe it was called corporate rock, but it worked.
stoneunhinged
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On Oct 20, 2014, The Hermit wrote:
Interesting no one mentioned Pet Sounds which was a game changer for many of the 'game changer' musicians you mention.


True indeed. Without Pet Sounds there wouldn't have been a Sgt Peppers. At least not according to McCartney.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 19, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
We're just a bunch of racist, sexist pigs. Homophobic, too. I mean, Queen is on the list, but where is Judas Priest? Where is Elton John?

Judas Priest is metal, not rock.


Metal is a sub genre of rock.


Interesting that the Rolling Stone "500 Greatest Rock Albums" list contains jazz, funk, soul, R&B, blues and country, in addition to the various sub-genres we've been discussing.

I once read (sadly, I forget where) the claim that popular music classification was invented solely for the purpose of organizing record stores.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
ZachDavenport
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 19, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
We're just a bunch of racist, sexist pigs. Homophobic, too. I mean, Queen is on the list, but where is Judas Priest? Where is Elton John?

Judas Priest is metal, not rock.


Metal is a sub genre of rock.

No, Metal is its own type of music. Most Rock is blues based, but most metal is classical based. There is blues based metal, but it is not rock.
Reality is a real killjoy.
LobowolfXXX
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On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 19, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
We're just a bunch of racist, sexist pigs. Homophobic, too. I mean, Queen is on the list, but where is Judas Priest? Where is Elton John?

Judas Priest is metal, not rock.


Metal is a sub genre of rock.

No, Metal is its own type of music. Most Rock is blues based, but most metal is classical based. There is blues based metal, but it is not rock.


Strongly disagree.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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I'd agree with you, Zach, but then we'd both be wrong.
LobowolfXXX
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As for the greatest metal album, I'd throw out as nominees:

Metallica: Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning.
Queensryche: The Warning or Operation: Mindcrime
Black Sabbath: Black Sabbath or Paranoid
Iron Maiden: The Number of The Beast
Motörhead: Rock and Roll*
Fates Warning: Awaken The Guardian
Corrosion of Conformity: Deliverance
Monster Magnet: Superjudge



*Side note re: genres. There's a reason the hugely influential Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead, "The Godfather of Speed Metal," constantly refers to himself as a rock and roll singer and Motorhed as a rock and roll band and cites The Beatles and Chuck Berry among Motorhead's influences.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
HudsonView
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"I once read (sadly, I forget where) the claim that popular music classification was invented solely for the purpose of organizing record stores."

Music classifications have always been market based. For years, Billboard magazine had a category called "Race Records" in their reports on record sales. Then in 1948 Jerry Wexler who was at Billboard replaced the term Race Records with the term Rythm and Blues. and thus the category R&B was formed.

By having categories, it was much more efficient to market and sell records because you promote an entire roster of musicians under a single label. And fans, who like one artist, had a built in mechanism to discover other artists.

Duke Ellington hated the category "Jazz", but was forced to accept both that and "Swing." Ellington really didn't fit under either classification, being something so unique and completely original. But that is the way of the world.

The problem comes in when you don't fit into a specific genre, or your music is multi-influenced.

But all music classifications have their roots in marketing and advertising.
ZachDavenport
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:

*Side note re: genres. There's a reason the hugely influential Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead, "The Godfather of Speed Metal," constantly refers to himself as a rock and roll singer and Motorhed as a rock and roll band and cites The Beatles and Chuck Berry among Motorhead's influences.

Rock did defiantly create metal, but it s not a sub-genre. The Beatles have a metal song, and you can easily distinguish it from their rock music. It is call "Helter Skelter", and it greatly influenced many early metal artist like Deep Purple. They are closely related, but still very different.
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LobowolfXXX
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"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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Rock, it all sounds very Masonic to me. The big rock groups. The Pyramids,. Crocodile Rock. Know what you mean, nudge nudge, wink wink.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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mastermindreader
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Is "acid rock" rock?

Yes- It's another sub genre, just like metal.
ZachDavenport
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No it is a sub gene of rock just like death metal is a sub genre of metal. Metal has a ton of subgenre just like rock. There is also power metal, thrash metal, black metal, classic metal, etc.
Reality is a real killjoy.
ZachDavenport
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music

Don't believe everything on the internet.
Reality is a real killjoy.
tommy
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Some of these rocks are fashion trends created by marketing boys. ie Punk
http://www.examiner.com/article/greg-lak......movement
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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ZachDavenport
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Maybe it started as that, but now punk is a subgenre of rock like the others.
Reality is a real killjoy.
LobowolfXXX
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On Oct 21, 2014, ZachDavenport wrote:
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On Oct 21, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music

Don't believe everything on the internet.


I don't; for instance, I don't believe your assertions about rock and metal. Smile
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ZachDavenport
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Is there an official listing of this? If not we can argue forever. I'm not going to further argue for that reason.
Reality is a real killjoy.
Theodore Lawton
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There is no official agreement on the rock/metal argument. Some say that metal is a sub-genre of rock. Older metal definitely is and sounds like it. It is heavily based upon blues chord progressions.

Some say that metal has evolved enough to be its own genre. This can also be true- there is metal that has absolutely no musical relation to rock other than it is loud and annoys old people.

This is an old argument and won't be settled here, except in the minds of those who hold to their own opinion. So I guess I'll throw mine out there.

My opinion is that older metal is definitely a sub-genre of rock. The fact that people call Zeppelin and Deep Purple "metal" kind of amuses me. I grew up on stuff that I called metal and I would personally call Zep and DP "rock." It's all pretty subjective.

Judas Priest was metal but was still heavily rock influenced. Most people that grew up listening to it would probably say that's metal and not actual rock. Still a sub-genre.

I also tend toward the school of thought that newer, harder metal is its own genre and is too far removed from rock to be a sub-genre. The progressions and timings are to different from rock for much of it to be classified as a sub-genre. It has become its own genre. For instance- no one I knew listening to Slayer back in the old days would ever consider it rock or a sub-genre. It was too different.

The other difference being that if you called certain metal "rock" you could get punched in the face.

Smile Smile

Subjectivity rules the day with this argument. FWIW
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