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Klas Andersson
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Third that! David's book and Maximum Entertainment are the two books I'm reading and working on right now.
David Thiel
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Thank you guys for the very kind words. Right alongside Maximum Entertainment, huh?

I was going to make a joke about "Gee...maybe I should have charged more..." But you know something? I can't tell you how happy it makes me that you all are using the book and getting something out of it. That's why I wrote it...to help guys put the 'pedal to the mental.' Smile

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


www.MindGemsBrainTrust.com
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www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
saysold1
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Yes I agree that the info David has provided was really needed and will help me and others to take their business to the next level - superb!

I have another question please:

David I keep running into situations lately for strolling gigs where at the end of (say) a 2 hour gig the hose asks me to stay an extra 1-2 hours. Now I love these situations, because (lets face it) even though I may be a little ravished for some food, I have the night set aside anyway and I have no issue with letting the taxi meter go overtime for my usual rate.

This situation has happened MANY times this past month especially. The issue however is whether I ask the host to pay me the overage on the spot (which I think is tacky) or not???

Yes I do try to discuss this possibility up front with clients, and most of the time they say "well, 2 hours or probably more than enough so we should be fine."

Well in many cases two hours for a group of 200+ people goes by like the wind... and then when my time comes to an end the host asks me to stay longer. The challenge though for me is:

1. The host at this stage has probably been drinking a little (or a lot). Asking and getting a card on the spot (and I have a PayPal swiper) seems a little tacky and it breaks the vibe - so I never do this.

2. After working an hour or two extra, I've run into least one hose who (even after agreeing to extend me at mu usual hourly rate) then asked for a discount promising me a load of future referrals etc + to add a little insult said they would pay me the overage in a few days.

Another challenge is getting paid after the event for extra hours has meant me chasing people for up to a week for the $$$ which is a pain.

I would love your thoughts David or others on this subject - I am flattered when people want me to keep going like the Energizer Mentalist, but I hate chasing money after a show as you might imagine!!!

BRETT
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
saysold1
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Sorry for the HOSE type.... lol ... maybe I felt HOSED! H O S T
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Scott Soloff
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Brett,

Great question. Interested to see how different people handle this.

Best wishes,

Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
David Thiel
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That's not an uncommon situation, Brett. Neither is a case where the show is delayed...and winds up starting much later than the contracted time. Here's the way I handle these situations:

When I send the agreement to the client -- if it's someone I don't know well and haven't worked with before -- I tell them in the email that goes with the contract that I'll be calling them in just a few minutes to go over the agreement with them. I have two reasons for this. First, I want them to understand the terms of payment along with any performance specific components (riders) that I have. It is in this talk that I will explain that I've been booked for two hours of walkabout/strolling and...whatever else. I explain that, should they choose to keep me longer, I'll bill them at an hourly rate and put it on their credit card (if they've paid with one) or invoice them accordingly if they've paid by cheque (that's "check" for our American friends.) But I ensure they KNOW the rate while we are talking...and that they hear it while they're sober.

In the case of a stage show, I tell them that I have a 15 minute window on either side of the contracted start time. If the show starts later than that, we need to arrive at an agreement that works for everyone.

If you look at the small print on my contract in the book (just above the signature line), you'll see this is covered there as well.

The second reason for going over the agreement with them on the phone is that it greatly speeds up the return of the agreement. People often have a tendency to put off signing an agreement for whatever reason. At the end of our conversation, I'll tell them that I look forward to working with them and will can send invoices later today -- after the agreement's been returned...operative word is "today."

In cases where you're not sure of the client -- if they've been difficult to collect from or you simply don't want to stay, tell them you have another place you need to be and you're sorry...but you can't stay. (You're not lying...because you NEED to be HOME. Smile )

I'd much rather err on the side of passing up a couple of extra paid hours when I'm dealing with someone I think may be a hard client to be paid by. Why? Because the instant you've had to press a client for payment, chase them for it, you've burned the client. They won't work with you again...either because they are embarrassed or because they're angry. That negativity can also spill over in their conversations with other people...other potential clients. It's not worth the risk.

But I absolutely would not process payment on-site. It looks bad...and if you have problems? Oi.

If it's someone I've worked with before...someone I have a good relationship with? "No problem. My pleasure. I'll bill you for it later."

Two quick pieces of (unsolicited) advice about strolling mentalism:

1) Take the number of tables you're working and divide that by the amount of time you're booked for. THAT becomes the maximum amount of time you have with each table. Why do this? Two reasons. First, we all like tables that like us. When they react nice and loud to everything you do, we have a desire to spend more time with them because they are so receptive. But that's a mistake. One minute you give to them is one minute the next table doesn't get. Second: Performing this way means you'll hit the vast majority of people (if not all of them) in you allotted time.

2) If it's a longer booking (a full evening in a hospitality suite or a trade show), or if it's a booking where people AREN'T seated, assume that some will see you several times throughout the night (bringing friends over etc.) Try to mentally plan out your night in "sets." That means that you do only perform three effects for the first time period (whatever that may be)...another three for the next period etc. This way you never need to worry that the groups you entertain will have seen the effect you're performing. (Not that this is necessarily bad...but fresh material throughout the performance is much stronger for most audiences.)

Hope this is helpful.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


www.MindGemsBrainTrust.com
www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Scott Soloff
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David,

As always, thank you. Practical advice from real world experience. Priceless!

Best,

Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
saysold1
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That Savis is so smart - scary huh?

Thank you David. Lots and lots of nuggets and I know what you mean by spending too much time at certain tables that love you. That is a mistake as we need to spread the love.

As an aside (and since strolling is easily 75% of my workload) I have found that the toughest portion of any strolling gig is the first 20 minutes. Your new to the room and you haven't earned your cred yet. In many cases I find the first few tables in some cases don't take you seriously. It takes a good 30 min sometimes to generate some room buzz but once it's started then the rest of the night is usually (not always!) a breeze. Some of the toughest initial people you approached many times become groupies following you around and saying "you gotta see this guy!"

With strolling all your material needs to be strong.

Thanks again David.
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Richard Osterlind
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David didn't ask me for a quote, but I volunteered it. I thought it would be good to post it here.



“I had the pleasure of seeing David Thiel present his workshop The Marketing Minded Mentalist earlier this year. I was also privy to getting one of the very first copies of his book. Let me just say this – If I had this material 40 years ago I would have made many thousands of dollars! Everything David states in the book is right on. If you get this material, and apply it, you WILL succeed. There is nothing else I can say!

Richard Osterlind"
David Thiel
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That's true, Brett.

Here's another 'little something' that may be of use to you.

When I perform my first effect in a walkabout situation, I make sure that it's one of the strongest things I do (typically a CT...maybe a pendulum routine) and at the end, once the reveal is done, I will stand and smile. I'll open my arms and bow. Why? People are conditioned to applaud when they see someone doing this...and they will applaud very loudly if they really enjoyed what you just performed...which hopefully they did.

In those first few groups you're performing for, you WANT applause. As loud as possible. That gets the attention of the room fixed on you...and further, makes them really look forward to getting you to come to their table or area. (It also tends to annoy any other entertainers who aren't getting that kind of reception. Ah well...) It takes great confidence to non-verbally command applause and attention...but if you work at it, it becomes almost second nature after a while. Try it the next time you're strolling. You'll see it working.

Also: choose an outgoing woman for your first effect. You want someone really expressive....so stay away from the image conscious executives. Avoid the drunks too. When you perform -- if it's a casual setting where they aren't seated -- draw as large a crowd as possible. Crowds beget crowds. If you handle it right, you're no longer "strolling." You're doing a parlor show because they're coming to you.

The evening makes itself after that. Once the room has seen other groups of people applauding for you, they will too. And the REALLY great thing? The client sees all of this.

Hope this helps.

David

Edit: I just posted this and who do I see? Richard Freakin' Osterlind! Thank you very much, Richard. I appreciate the kind words. I am having them inscribed on a pillow as we speak. Smile
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


www.MindGemsBrainTrust.com
www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
saysold1
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Quote:
On Nov 10, 2014, Richard Osterlind wrote:
David didn't ask me for a quote, but I volunteered it. I thought it would be good to post it here.



“I had the pleasure of seeing David Thiel present his workshop The Marketing Minded Mentalist earlier this year. I was also privy to getting one of the very first copies of his book. Let me just say this – If I had this material 40 years ago I would have made many thousands of dollars! Everything David states in the book is right on. If you get this material, and apply it, you WILL succeed. There is nothing else I can say!

Richard Osterlind"


May I also extend my thanks to you and your lovely wife, who were incredibly gracious to all the MV attendees and I especially appreciated the spoon bending hints at your sales booth. I did two gigs this past weekend and hadn't done spoons in awhile and people just love it. Thanks again.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Richard Osterlind
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I'm glad that worked out so good for you! It was a pleasure meeting you and so many others at MindVention who, up till then, were only names on the Internet!
eric50
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Very excited to announce David will be conducting an extended lecture at the Magic Business University Convention April 17-19 in CLinton, NJ . Magicbusinessuniversity.com a new convention focusing on the business side of magic and performing.
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Nov 11, 2014, eric50 wrote:
Very excited to announce David will be conducting an extended lecture at the Magic Business University Convention April 17-19 in CLinton, NJ . Magicbusinessuniversity.com a new convention focusing on the business side of magic and performing.


Link please.

Best,

Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Scott Soloff
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Never mind. Can't believe that I didn't see that.

Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Slim King
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Re-reading the book again!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
genius
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Did the 9am to 11am ritual work well for you?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

Quote:
On Nov 12, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Re-reading the book again!!!!!
Mr. F
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I have read the ebook 5 times...no really I have. This is definitely one of my favorite purchases, and I am in the process of taking the necessary initial steps to start up my mentalism career. The book is full of practical, easy-to-follow information. I had no idea how to start this journey, but David gave me the map and the fuel. Thanks David!
David Thiel
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I need to come back to this thread more often. I was delighted to read your post, Mr. F. That is EXACTLY why I wrote the book and your words simply made my day. Thank you for sharing them with us.

Please let me know how you make out...and if there's anything you'd like to know, something maybe that you wish had been covered in more detail. AND if you can make it to NJ in the spring for my workshop at MBU, I'll even buy you a beer and we can talk about your career in more detail!

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


www.MindGemsBrainTrust.com
www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Scott Soloff
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David,

I'll show up if you buy the beer.

Best wishes,


Scott
p.s. To hell with that! I'd like to invite you and your wife to dinner. Set some time aside and I'll make it happen.
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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