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landmark
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In NYC public high schools, certain teachers and social workers are allowed to give out condoms to students who request them. The teacher must go through a few sessions of training in what to say and do if a student asks. How to use the condom properly so it doesn't break, and so on. A parent may opt out and refuse to allow the dispensation of condoms to their child; the student's name is put on a list, and a teacher can be fired for giving condoms to those students. The opt out list usually ran to about a few dozen students.

Anyway, I had gone through this training, so I had some students come to me after school every year to get condoms. Not a lot, but some every year.

Without fail, every year, someone from the opt out list would get pregnant.
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On Oct 27, 2014, landmark wrote:
In NYC public high schools, certain teachers and social workers are allowed to give out condoms to students who request them. The teacher must go through a few sessions of training in what to say and do if a student asks. How to use the condom properly so it doesn't break, and so on. A parent may opt out and refuse to allow the dispensation of condoms to their child; the student's name is put on a list, and a teacher can be fired for giving condoms to those students. The opt out list usually ran to about a few dozen students.

Anyway, I had gone through this training, so I had some students come to me after school every year to get condoms. Not a lot, but some every year.

Without fail, every year, someone from the opt out list would get pregnant.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you say that none of the students that were not in the opt out group "NEVER" got pregnant?

Also just another question. If you are trained in what questions to ask the student requesting condoms can you refuse to give them to that student if you do not like their answer to your questions?
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R.S.
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2014, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2014, R.S. wrote:
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On Oct 25, 2014, acesover wrote:
I hope I made myself clear on the subject of teen sex. It is playing with fire, and the condoning of it by passing out condoms and day after pills at schools sends mixed messages to already confused teens. And please don't tell me that the passing out of said materials is not condoning it. If not what is it doing? What message is it sending? That is why I am concerned. Your views may differ and that is fine.


A lot of teen drivers like to drive fast. Do you think that putting air bags in cars is condoning speeding? Maybe we should disable or remove air bags from cars so that young drivers won't be tempted to drive fast. After all, we're sending mixed messages when we try to make cars more invulnerable to the consequences of bad driving.

Anyway, I would rather live in a society that has perhaps slightly more teens engaging in (SAFE/PROTECTED) sex resulting in a drastic reduction in unwanted pregnancies/abortions, than a society where teen sexual activity may be down, but with many unwanted pregnancies/abortions as a result of the lack of access to birth control. How about you?

Ron


Air bags were not put there for teens per say. They were put there for everyone. I do no think you have the option of having an airbag in your car. I believe air bags have been mandatory for ALL cars since around 1998 or earlier and not just for teen drivers. So your analogy is really not very valid or sensible. But go ahead and have fun with it.


Well, just like air bags are a safety measure for everyone who drives, birth control is a safety measure for anyone who can give birth. To deny birth control to a select class of people is kind of like denying air bags to a select class of people (ostensibly in order to teach them a lesson, i.e. that driving fast is bad).

It's not a perfect analogy, I know, but something to think about.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2014, acesover wrote:
Just to clarify my above post on, Oct 26, 2014 09:12 pm .

This is what R S posted:

Anyway, I would rather live in a society that has perhaps slightly more teens engaging in (SAFE/PROTECTED) sex resulting in a drastic reduction in unwanted pregnancies/abortions, than a society where teen sexual activity may be down, but with many unwanted pregnancies/abortions as a result of the lack of access to birth control. How about you?


This was my response:


To answer your question. I would rather live in a society where there were better morals taught along with restraint, and not if it feels good do it mentality. How about you? Also a crime free society and a disease free world and no hunger. How about you? And no I do not see more teens having sex as a good thing no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Is it going to stop? Of course not. But lets not condone it. Jeez...

Also I am missing how you say unwanted abortions. No one is forcing anyone to have one. Most are done for the supposed benefit and desire of the would be mother. Get rid of the child because it interfers with my uninhibited life style. I want to be free...kill the unborn child. whee.


You have avoided my question. The 2 options in my scenario are:

1) Would you rather live in a society that has perhaps slightly more teens engaging in (SAFE/PROTECTED) sex resulting in a drastic reduction in unwanted pregnancies/abortions, or...

2) a society where teen sexual activity may be down, but with many unwanted pregnancies/abortions as a result of the lack of access to birth control.

Which of those would you rather?

Also, who says more teens having sex is a good thing? I never said that, so tell me where you get that notion from.

Regarding a woman's choice, who are you to infer a mother's motives, lifestyle, health, socio-economic conditions, or otherwise? How can you possibly have such a degree of insight into such a personal and private matter? I know you are into guns, so saying that women who have abortions just want to be free and kill an unborn child so as to live an uninhibited lifestyle is kind of like me saying that all gun owners are reckless maniacs who have a secret desire to kill or be killed.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Rest in peace to all the victims... Smile
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Hope this stops but violence is just part of us... Smile
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, R.S. wrote:
...who says more teens having sex is a good thing?


I do.

But I don't think Aces was referring to me. Smile
landmark
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, landmark wrote:
In NYC public high schools, certain teachers and social workers are allowed to give out condoms to students who request them. The teacher must go through a few sessions of training in what to say and do if a student asks. How to use the condom properly so it doesn't break, and so on. A parent may opt out and refuse to allow the dispensation of condoms to their child; the student's name is put on a list, and a teacher can be fired for giving condoms to those students. The opt out list usually ran to about a few dozen students.

Anyway, I had gone through this training, so I had some students come to me after school every year to get condoms. Not a lot, but some every year.

Without fail, every year, someone from the opt out list would get pregnant.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you say that none of the students that were not in the opt out group "NEVER" got pregnant?


No, but no one whoever asked for my advice on birth control did. That's why I think birth control info and birth control should be available even more freely. That's the clear implication of your question. But you can look at the pregnancy rates of unmarried teens in major cities where the Sex Ed. is strictly Abstinence Only compared with a more realistic approach. Lots of studies and data there.

Quote:
Also just another question. If you are trained in what questions to ask the student requesting condoms can you refuse to give them to that student if you do not like their answer to your questions?

I generally refused requests for condoms when the request is so "that I can make the most awesome water balloon ever!"

Seriously, I would never turn down a request--even if it's "for a friend." I speak to students so that they know how to use them and when to use them. Lots who think incorrectly that they can't get a venereal disease orally.
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2014, acesover wrote:
Just to clarify my above post on, Oct 26, 2014 09:12 pm .

This is what R S posted:

Anyway, I would rather live in a society that has perhaps slightly more teens engaging in (SAFE/PROTECTED) sex resulting in a drastic reduction in unwanted pregnancies/abortions, than a society where teen sexual activity may be down, but with many unwanted pregnancies/abortions as a result of the lack of access to birth control. How about you?


This was my response:


To answer your question. I would rather live in a society where there were better morals taught along with restraint, and not if it feels good do it mentality. How about you? Also a crime free society and a disease free world and no hunger. How about you? And no I do not see more teens having sex as a good thing no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Is it going to stop? Of course not. But lets not condone it. Jeez...

Also I am missing how you say unwanted abortions. No one is forcing anyone to have one. Most are done for the supposed benefit and desire of the would be mother. Get rid of the child because it interfers with my uninhibited life style. I want to be free...kill the unborn child. whee.


You have avoided my question. The 2 options in my scenario are:

1) Would you rather live in a society that has perhaps slightly more teens engaging in (SAFE/PROTECTED) sex resulting in a drastic reduction in unwanted pregnancies/abortions, or...

2) a society where teen sexual activity may be down, but with many unwanted pregnancies/abortions as a result of the lack of access to birth control.

Which of those would you rather?

Also, who says more teens having sex is a good thing? I never said that, so tell me where you get that notion from.

Regarding a woman's choice, who are you to infer a mother's motives, lifestyle, health, socio-economic conditions, or otherwise? How can you possibly have such a degree of insight into such a personal and private matter? I know you are into guns, so saying that women who have abortions just want to be free and kill an unborn child so as to live an uninhibited lifestyle is kind of like me saying that all gun owners are reckless maniacs who have a secret desire to kill or be killed.

Ron


In all fairness you are not asking me a question but rather asking me to make a decision of the lesser of two evils. Not the same thing.

Also in this topic we are discussing teenagers not WOMEN per say as woman infers older. These are kids remember. They need all the help and guidance get from so called responsible adults. Do you agree with that? We don't ask these kids, (teenagers ) if they wwant to goto school. We make them go. Do feel that is right? Just asking because of your reasoning.

On this comment you totally lost me. "I know you are into guns, so saying that women who have abortions just want to be free and kill an unborn child so as to live an uninhibited lifestyle is kind of like me saying that all gun owners are reckless maniacs who have a secret desire to kill or be killed." I guess you see something that parallels the two but I cannot find it. What does having a hobby of shooting have to do with a woman having an abortion? I shoot because I enjoy it. Do these women enjoy abortions? Or do you mean these women's hobby is having sex? Not sure where you are going with this. Confusing to say the least.
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I have idea how this got here but I will say only this.

Abstinence works every time it is tried. Great. Now let's try to live in reality. People make mistakes. Especially young people. Abstinence only teaching is not really preparing young people for an inevitable mistake. It is demanding only perfection.

By the same token it is also not the best choice to Ferndale l devalue life further than has already been done by just having abortion on demand.

So there ya go.
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The only reason birth control info and birth control is available even more free is population control.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2014, R.S. wrote:
...who says more teens having sex is a good thing?


I do.

But I don't think Aces was referring to me. Smile


Just curious. Do you have any teenage daughters? If not, let me ask you. If you did would you like her having safe sex when she goes out? Because she is going to be rather popular when news gets around.

I can hear the boys now. "Yea her dad thinks it is a good idea. What a cool dude".

Glad that works for you. Or I should say sad that works for you.
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Just curious. Do you have any teenage daughters? If not, let me ask you. If you did would you like her having unsafe sex when she goes out?
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On Oct 27, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
By the same token it is also not the best choice to Ferndale l devalue life further than has already been done.


This was not there when I posted this! My computer is haunted.
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On Oct 27, 2014, acesover wrote:

Just curious. Do you have any teenage daughters?


I have a 15-year-old son and three step-children, the youngest of whom is a seven-year-old girl.

I expect all of them to probably have sex before the are married, including the the girl. If I do my job right, they all will be careful to protect themselves against diseases and unwanted pregnancies. They will learn--as I have--the joys of love, sex, and intimacy through experience rather than some kind of textbook. They might be different than me. I am a straight male who desires monogamy and fidelity, as does my wife. But should any of my children be different, then that's OK with me. I just want them all to be happy.
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Just curious. Why do teachers tell under age children, experts concentrate too much on the need for safe sex and loving relationships, and not enough on the pleasure it can bring?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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It's an American thing, Tommy. Pleasure is always potentially evil. Not just sex, but sugar, alcohol, weed, Brad Christian...all bad.
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Sorry Brad. It was just a joke. No harm done, I hope.
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Smile

I thought that maybe it was because the teachers work for government and that's what the government tells their teachers to tell the children and the teaches, they neither know nor care why.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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I've seen the light. It's so simple. Tell kids not to engage in sex. And tell kids not to shoot one another with guns. Nothing more need be done. Problems solved. Thanks, Aces!
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