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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » From slave ship to championship. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ray Tupper.
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That's how Don King described, and eventually, sold it.
Forty years ago today in Kinshasa, the fight that got me *hooked*, took place.
Do yourself a favour and read the whole background to the fight. Unbelievable.
Forty years...Where's the time gone?
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes!
When do we want it?
C*nt!
balducci
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Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Easily a contender for one of the greatest heavyweight championship fights of all time.
LobowolfXXX
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It's on the short list!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicfish
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Meh
Magnus Eisengrim
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Heavyweight boxing was right at the front of public consciousness in the 70s. It was truly an exciting time for the sport. Heck, my friend even named his Siamese cats Ali and Norton.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Oct 31, 2014, magicfish wrote:
Meh



You remind me of the person who has to posts "Why is this news?" on every human interest story that he/she doesn't care about.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Oct 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 31, 2014, magicfish wrote:
Meh



You remind me of the person who has to posts "Why is this news?" on every human interest story that he/she doesn't care about.

Im not sure I understand.
magicfish
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If you'd like me to elaborate on 'meh' , I will, but I don't get the "why is this news" reference.
landmark
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Why meh?
LobowolfXXX
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A Baker's Dozen and Then Some of The Greatest Heavyweight Championship Fights, in chronilogical order. These are off the top of my head, on a sliding scale including both the historical significance and the excitement of the actual fight itself.

* Johnson-Burns: Jack Johnson becomes the first black heavyweight champion.
* Johnson-Jeffries: Johnson defeats the "Great White Hope," undefeated former champ James Jeffries, out of retirement.
* Sullivan-Corbett: The last of the bare knuckles champions becomes the first under the Queensbury Rules.
* Dempsey-Tunney 2: The "long count" greatly hurts Dempsey's attempt to be the first heavyweight champ to refrain the title.
* Dempsey-Firpo: Dempsey drops Firpo 7 times in the first round before being knocked out of the ring, but gets back ahead of the count (aided by ringside sportswriters) to finish him off.
* Louis-Schmeling 2: Being black is suddenly less important than being American in a title fight set against the backdrop of the rise of Nazi Germany. Louis avenges his only defeat with a vicious first-round knockout and goes on to hold the title for another decade, effectively single-handedly braking the color barrier: he's only the second black heavyweight champ, but after him, only two will be white for more than fifty years.
* Louis-Conn 1: Trailing on all cards after 12 rounds, Louis saves his title with a 13th-round knockout.
* Marciano-Walcott 1: See "Louis-Conn 1," The a Rock saves his legend with a right that travels less than a foot and catches Walcott perfectly.
*Patterson-Johannsson 2: The unlikely Floyd Patterson becomes,the first to regain the title.
* Clay-Liston 1: Huge underdog Clay survives temporary blindness to back up his trash talk and prove that he is The Greatest.
* Ali-Frazier 1: Both undefeated, both sanctioned by various bodies. A unification that lived up to the hype.
* Ali-Foreman: Foreman had destroyed the only man to have beaten Ali, and was a huge favorite. Ali goes off the reservation to come up with his own fight plan, and plays it to perfection.
* Ali-Frazier 3: The Thrilla in Manila. Both men exhausted and close to death. Ali collapsed after being told Frazier wasn't coming out for the 15th. I hate the cliche, but this might be the one time in sports history that it came down to one guy wanting it more.
* Holmes-Norton: All three judges had it dead even after 14 rounds. One of them gives the 15th to Norton; two give it to Holmes, and Norton ends his reign as the only heavyweight champion (and maybe the best heavyweight) to have never one a title fight.
* Holmes-Cooney: Almost Rocky-esque. Over-hyped "Great White Hope" lasts into the 13th, wins a number of rounds, and impresses more in defeat than he ever had in victory.
* Tyson-Douglas: Greatest upset in heavyweight championship history, and possibly boxing history. It took James "Buster" Douglas to prove that Mike Tyson was human after all.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicfish
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Quote:
On Oct 31, 2014, landmark wrote:
Why meh?

Hi Landmark. Bob and I debated this fight a while ago.
My opinion of this fight, while shared by many (not necessarily the majority) is not very popular here. But since you asked.
I don't think it was a great fight. It was important fight, but not a great one.
As you know, Ali, whom I consider to be one of the best pound for pound boxers ever, employed the rope a dope.
The rope a dope consists of two illegal activities- 1)not fighting 2)holding
Not only was he not docked a point but was not even cautioned.
Some call it gamesmanship or a brilliant tactic. I disagree.
As Bob convinced me in our last debate, Foreman lost the fight and should have changed tactics to combat Ali's antics. Granted.
But as a boxing fan, as a spectator, it was a poor fight to watch. If Ali didn't rob Foreman of glory, he certainly robbed some fans who were looking forward to some grand scale pugilism.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Johnson-Burns was a horrible mismatch. Johnson was much, much bigger and stronger, and had more modern skills and training than Burns. On top of all that Burns reportedly had the flu.

Not much of a fight, unfortunately.

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
magicfish
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Great post, Lobo. Great list.
mastermindreader
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I misread the meaning of your "meh," magicfish. Sorry about that. Am a bit pre-occupied today.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Oct 31, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Johnson-Burns was a horrible mismatch. Johnson was much, much bigger and stronger, and had more modern skills and training than Burns. On top of all that Burns reportedly had the flu.

Not much of a fight, unfortunately.



All true...Johnson-Burns was included purely for historical significance.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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Great fight. I backed Ali out blind faith I think.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LobowolfXXX
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If you haven't seen Ali-Foreman, or haven't seen it lately, here's a 5-minute highlight reel. As you can see from the clips, Ali DID fight, and quite effectively; he just did so in spurts, conserving his energy. You can see Ali fighting very effectively off of the ropes in rounds 2 and 5, for instance, and staggering Foreman in rounds 4 and 5. He learned quite a bit from watching Foreman-Frazier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVseoF1-p3M
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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BTW, Ali was winning the fight on all officials' cards at the time of the stoppage. The fight was Ring Magazine's "Fight of the Year" for 1974.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Other Ring Fights of the Year from my list of great heavyweight championship fights:

Dempsey-Firpo
Tunney-Dempsey II
Louis-Conn I
Marciano-Walcott I
Patterson-Johansson II
Ali-Liston I
Ali-Frazier I
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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