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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Sealed by Menny Lindenfeld (31 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Cassidy001
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Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Preach on! I am pre ordering tomorrow.

Kevin
"You want to know the secret of the world. It's this: save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day."
--Axel Brass
Joaquin
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WHY IS EVERYONE TRYING TO DISCOVER AND TELL HOW IT IS DONE ??? THIS IS SO CHILDISH AND UNETHICAL

All these NEW members please be aware that this is not a Guessing Contest .There is a Code to Follow even if Magic is just your Hobby. And this is TO NEVER REVEAL A SECRET

Have respect for a guy that have the guts to work and use his brain to create this effect. if you are interested then buy it. If not then do not Ruin it for others or for the creator. We do not care how smart you are. We do not need to know from you how do you think it is done.

Follow the Golden Rule " Do not do to other what you do not want other to do to you"
TuneHV
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In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed.
David Jonathan
- - - - - - - - - -
Stroop Test | TOCAAN | THREESUM | SNAPS | Precise Premonition | With The Band | You Know (UNO) | CAANWICH | Fourtunate | Destined | Wrong Turn | Fortuity | Arbitrium | Sovereign Sandwich | RudiMental

More Info: www.davidjonathanmagic.com
Burf
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This effect looks amazing, especially from a spectators hand. My only reservation is my disappointment with the self bending paperclip which will never again see the light of day from the back of my cupboard.
If it works as shown on the clip then I MUST have it!
Just a bit worried about rushing in....
ricklaxmagic
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Yes, this is a tricky thread. Exposure and method are no good, questioning practicality, performability, required skill-level is all good. But much like a game of 20 questions...even if you're just asking Yes/No questions...if you ask enough (as sometimes happens on threads that run 4 pages or more)...you arrive at the method. It's no 1 person's fault; it's a group thing. Not sure what the solution to this is...but I'd be curious to hear whether you guys see this as a problem and what we might do about it if you think it is. Tricky situation.
saysold1
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"SPECULATION -VS- EXPOSURE:

It is , after all, only natural to speculate the possible method to a new trick or effect. Comments as to possibilities of a method are just that - Possibilities. One person may say; "I think it might use a piece of velcro" while another may comment; "No, it probably uses a magnet". Either scenario is okay.

However, If someone knows for a fact what the method is and posts it, then we have exposure and the post will be deleted with NO EXPLANATION given."
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
saysold1
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Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Kevin


The rules allow guesses. Read above - same rules for all these years. If it bothers you then get over it. It isn't disrespectful, it is the nature of this section.

Rick Lax is correct that at times things do get out of hand, but on this thread I don't think we are at that stage yet.

By the way Rick it was cool seeing you in Vegas at MV - I hope you bought that cool PM product you had your heart set on.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Kevin Schaller
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Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed.


Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin
'Geniuses can make the world a better place or make it fall apart alongside their own minds.” - Kevin Schaller
saysold1
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed.


Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin


evin - get over it.

I see you are a creator and good for you - obviously you have your own perspectives.

This is the playground we are on and those are the rules like them or not. If you don't like them move along to a different playground.

Nice quote - thanks for sharing.

Now lets let the conversation continue - it is not impolite, it is the way this place works like it or not.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
David Klass
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Oh dear!!

Are we not usually all pointed in the direction of "downstairs" when it comes to discussing methods?

As we should be, in my opinion.
saysold1
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These are (still) apparently guesses which are allowed according to the rules - methods that are known or secrets go down.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Jack Straw
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That is what happens when the hype machine goes into action way before the item is actually released.

What are we supposed to do- accept everything that we're told by people with a financial interest in the product and just sit here and ooh and ah about it?
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
TuneHV
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The problem is I like to think that most of us are pretty clever, so when someone speculates, they may very well get it right... and then people cry exposure. According to the rules, that is acceptable even if it is the actual method used because it was just an educated guess.

In the case of Sealed, no one in this thread seems to have suggested anything about how the card got inside the cellophane- so I don't see much exposure. All that was said was the card looked a bit different outside/inside. I think around these parts, its pretty safe to say whenever the magician has to sign a card/object as well as the spectator, and the moment the magic happens only the magician's signature is visible, you know SOMETHING happened... but I have no idea how or what took place.
David Jonathan
- - - - - - - - - -
Stroop Test | TOCAAN | THREESUM | SNAPS | Precise Premonition | With The Band | You Know (UNO) | CAANWICH | Fourtunate | Destined | Wrong Turn | Fortuity | Arbitrium | Sovereign Sandwich | RudiMental

More Info: www.davidjonathanmagic.com
MR Effecto
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 7, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed.


Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin


evin - get over it.

I see you are a creator and good for you - obviously you have your own perspectives.

This is the playground we are on and those are the rules like them or not. If you don't like them move along to a different playground.

Nice quote - thanks for sharing.

Now lets let the conversation continue - it is not impolite, it is the way this place works like it or not.



Then as a creator we should not put things out for pre order. Pre orders are way out of hane with magic effects.
CarlMcCoy
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But it is exposure to people frequenting here to try to find some secrets. The fact that it's a load of magicians speculating on method is irrelevant, methods (or possible parts of ones) are still being discussed. Therefore, exposure in my book.

But it once again brings up the whole rules thing. That open speculation of methods is allowed by this forum is pretty stupid...again, in my opinion. With all the constant worrying over Youtube exposure, I'm surprised that so many don't see the rules of this forum being almost as bad.

But then I've always hated the fact that the forums (not just this one) are so freely open to so many. This place isn't hard to find if hunting down magic secrets are your thing. I found it pretty early on when searching for ways to do magic tricks (as probably most beginners do when they start out)
videoman
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
But it is exposure to people frequenting here to try to find some secrets. The fact that it's a load of magicians speculating on method is irrelevant, methods (or possible parts of ones) are still being discussed. Therefore, exposure in my book.

But it once again brings up the whole rules thing. That open speculation of methods is allowed by this forum is pretty stupid...again, in my opinion. With all the constant worrying over Youtube exposure, I'm surprised that so many don't see the rules of this forum being almost as bad.

But then I've always hated the fact that the forums (not just this one) are so freely open to so many. This place isn't hard to find if hunting down magic secrets are your thing. I found it pretty early on when searching for ways to do magic tricks (as probably most beginners do when they start out)


But when making new rules it is difficult to know where to draw the line, and it could possibly differ depending on the product being discussed and the context. And it will most certainly differ from person to person.
I certainly don't like exposure but what about determining if an effect requires a deck switch, a force, wearing a jacket, or even a gimmick at all?

Maybe I am naive but I believe most folks asking questions are simply concerned about whether a new product is right for them. For instance, if a fantastic looking effect requires lapping then that eliminates me and others as I rarely perform seated at a table. I would like to know that before shelling out $35.00 on average per effect. Even with the rules as they currently are I feel the Café has done me far more good than harm and I would venture that that is true for many (if not most) folks here.

Even when it comes to creators, discussions about their products, even if it borders on exposure at times, I'm sure helps them more than hurts them in the vast majority of cases.

What I find strange is why this thread has garnered so much attention about exposure and speculation as I find it much tamer than many other threads. But perhaps there were many posts that were already removed that I cannot view now.
SittinDuK
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For what it's worth I had no idea about the Café until it was mentioned to me after attending IBM ring meetings for a couple of months. I think most people who might stumble onto the Café that aren't magicians are probably going to type in Blaine or Brown find 20 pages of magicians arguing and forget all about the websites existence. If they're searching on google for 'signed card into the cellophane of a card box' they're going to see Sealed by Menney Lindenfeld as the 4th link down (as I'm typing this). If they then choose to click that link and your performance was anything like the one in the demos then well they know you did it with something you can buy.

If however they type 'signed card into the wrap of a card box' they're going to have to wade through pages of pinterest and etsy links. So if I end up using Sealed I shall never mention the word cellophane, pretty much how I don't call a Faro a Faro around lay people.

There are some things that I think need full exposure before you can make your own mind on whether you want to purchase that item, however I think a lay person only needs to know that you can buy something that accomplishes the feat they saw to decide that's how you did it regardless of whether that is the method you used.
TuneHV
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I seriously doubt that laymen go on the magic Café to find out methods. even if they find out this site exists, the home page has 100 subforums.

Honestly if they want exposure, they would go to YouTube.
David Jonathan
- - - - - - - - - -
Stroop Test | TOCAAN | THREESUM | SNAPS | Precise Premonition | With The Band | You Know (UNO) | CAANWICH | Fourtunate | Destined | Wrong Turn | Fortuity | Arbitrium | Sovereign Sandwich | RudiMental

More Info: www.davidjonathanmagic.com
dduane
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There's so much speculation and bickering about methods. I think the real issue is will this totally amaze and entertain the spectator. For me personally I think it's a little odd to put a card into the wrapper, so I would probably not use it. I will say that the spectator would probably not be able to figure it out. Just not for my style.

Dennis
sirbrad
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That is magician over-thinking, laymen do not care about the card appearing in cellophane, it is "magic" and not all magic needs to make "sense" either like many magicians seem to think. Also as a real-world performer I don't buy stuff based on secrets or if it fooled me, hobbyists do that usually. I buy stuff that I can use in the real world and entertain people with. Sure I find stuff that I love and am curious about once in awhile but most of the time I buy magic that I can use and that my audience will enjoy. I also enjoy it as well otherwise it would be a lot more work. Having been in magic for 34 years now I don't see much that totally fools me anymore, and if I did I probably would not buy it because that would be a moment I would want to last. At least for a few months. Smile
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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