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phillsmiff Inner circle UK 1794 Posts |
The one where this goes downstairs?
The new Elysian Duets, marked cards featuring my unique Optical Marking System:
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
Well, I bought Fair Play from Jheff, and it came this week. I have studied the DVD, which covers the prop and the effect reasonably well, and I plan to field test the effect in some walk-around this evening.
As I have now reread this thread, I cannot recall many other times on the Café in which so many people stampeded to doctrinaire judgement about something that they had not yet even seen! I was especially dismayed as I observed so much subjectivity ("I feel," "It seems to me," "If I don't need it, I can't judge it positively," etc.) masquerading as "logical" objectivity. So, several have proclaimed, Fair Play is not an improvement on Free Will because the FP prop is not "logical." I have noticed that everyone seems to assume that the props in the original Free Will ARE "logical!" What is the difference? We are accustomed to one more than the other, and therefore subjectively perceive it as more natural or logical. However, it is not intrinsically and significantly more illogical (or logical) to employ a key fob in an effect than it is to employ a key, or a lock, or ESP symbols, Tarot cards, poker decks, Mental Yarn type cards, wallets, movie posters, Mental Epic boards, coins, spoons, spikes, an so on. Bob Cassidy alluded to the point I am now reaching, when he referred to his famous effect that employs playing cards on a calendar. Namely, the mentalist simply establishes the audience-perceived plausibility of the prop he is using. (Mentalist effects, after all, typically take place through ritual actions, and usually with conducive props.) A number of comments in this thread helped me make some decisions about my upcoming Fair Play performances. For instance, I will position the effect as an exercise in influence rather than precognition. As a possible contribution to the discussion, I have decided to carry my haunted key on the fob's ring. I am suggesting that we really could help each other with this effect much more. This would, of course, necessitate more posts that generate more light and less heat. George |
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cc New user 75 Posts |
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I still think the gimmick is far too small. Think of all the times you've asked a participant to read something close-up or on stage (book tests, predictions, etc) and they struggled due to lighting or size of the print or their own eyesite. After many years of performing, I learned how to minimize this problem by choosing participants carefully and improving the books I use, the size of the type or font and my own handwriting. With this gimmick, you WILL run in to problems from time to time. I really hope the manufacturer offers a larger gimmick in the future because it's very clever. What this has forced me to do is look at the FREE WILL concept in general and work to improve my presentation for it. For instance, I think one could have a smart presentation that revolves around money, using a coin, a bill and a credit card instead of a business card. "I'm no expert, but the experts tell me the first step to properly managing my money is to know exactly where it’s all going. Let me show you what I mean..."
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2014, George Hunter wrote: The original Free Will prediction prop was a piece of paper. Can't get more logical than that....in my opinion. |
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Steve Haynes Inner circle Southeastern United States 1119 Posts |
Like that idea cc.
I use an expired bank/credit card,dollar and of course a coin. Spectators may at first think, say a penny is least valuable and the credit card the most valuable,which could be used as part of the presentation as to where they may put things,OR..Am I just trying to influence you? Your choice! Always been fascinated with the simple free will concept, Steve |
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MVoss Veteran user Boston, MA 372 Posts |
Wow, the money centric credit card, bill, coin thing, that is an amazing idea.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2014, George Hunter wrote: i don't think anyone has said that the original free will objects were "logical" (in this thread) - perhaps I missed it though... personally, I don't find the fob OR the original discs logical... IF every object you used came off a key ring, then it would make more sense (to me)... i don't want to have to qualify every post with (to me |in my opinion |I personally think) - because I naturally assume that everyone's post has that caveat kinda digitally floating in the air beside each post they make... EDIT - ah, martin did...i was referring to the wooden discs, only logical if you are bizzarist...
I've asked to be banned
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2014, IAIN wrote: I think it was implied by stating how illogical a key fob is. George is saying that there are so many items we use that are not only illogical but that most people have never even seen before. A pendulum,esp cards,a big gold disk with barb's on it, a black ball and other weird stuff. Why do we then throw stones at a key fob? More people are familiar with that than anything else we use. It's as of we are afraid their reaction is going to be,"holy cow this guys doing free will with,with,....WITH A KEY FOB! How ridiculous and out of place!" Personally I hardly think this will ever happen within the horiztonal plane of rational existence. Like Steve Martin used to say " What is that thing? HEY,I know what that is .... What the he## is that?" J |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
No john, I disagree...there's a surprise...
my reasoning for saying a fob is illogical, is that a key fob (in the uk at least) just has a football club picture, a leather patch kinda thing with your car logo on it, that kind of thing...never a piece of plastic with a miniature note with very small writing on it...(even the piece of miniature paper is not a regular size for lined paper)...that is why for me, its an illogical looking object...AND as I said, it would make a bit more sense if the items listed were all things that could be carried on a single key chain... as for pendulums, esp cards and so on...again, no...they are perfectly natural to carry IF you conduct ESP tests! you are a professional, therefore you act professionally and have your tools of the trade...so its not about familiarity really, its about appropriateness and using something 'reasonably'... by that I mean, if someone said to you "pppssst, hey you...yeah you...wanna take part in an esp experiment? test conditions too! follow me..." and he then writes on toilet paper using a lipstick, you'd want to slowly back away and make your escape wouldn't you (well maybe not, might be fun)...but if someone said "ever had a psychic experience? would you LIKE to have psychic experience? How about taking part in a real extra-sensory perception test, based on the ones Dr. Rhine did?" and then pulled out a nice set of PL esp cards from thomas and rainer, and you maybe had a clipboard too or a notepad to record the results... which would look and feel more realistic, and therefore more "real" to you? isn't that what mentalism is about to a degree?
I've asked to be banned
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
In response to, "the wooden discs, only logical if you are bizzarist." Yep, unless you establish it's plausibility for the audience.
For the key fob, my patter for now: "Let me present a message, hermitically sealed, and kept in a mayonnaise jar on the city hall porch since noon today." George |
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eric50 Regular user 166 Posts |
This is going to be used by hundreds of people who are not mentalists and just want to add some "mental magic" to their walk-around or to show off at the local bar ( with good lighting) I think everyone is really over-thinking this.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2014, eric50 wrote: i agree with your first sentence, definitely..and no shame/harm in that...this is the mentalism section however, so...y'know... so I don't think its over-thinking, just casting a critical eye over a few details, and everyone sharing their own point of view... go for it, plenty seem to like it!
I've asked to be banned
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Oh well I lost my energy. Iain you didn't have to disagree. I was only offering my opinion. I wasn't challenging you.
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Paul S Wingham Inner circle 1378 Posts |
I've quite enjoyed watching the whole fair play debate unfold. The most amusing parts for me being; uk magicians kidding themselves that they are buying the US version for any other reason than its simply available now and they want it now
now; this is just my opinion but it feels a bit like people are loving the "cleverness" of the prop and the fact that it fits on a keyring (we all love stuff we can carry all the time) and then because of these features; kind of glossed over some of the pitfalls. I think it'd fly by most but its not a very natural use of a keyring or style. My wife makes personalised keyrings and they say things like dad, or contain a picture of something or some one. She's never made one with just words on it. Perhaps not an issue for a very casual performance, but when I hear "pros" saying "when I try this at a gig"; I question whether its close to strong enough and then further question if it is; what must the rest of the set look like. I'm not being negative but I think at best its a good trick but I don't see it as a serious piece of mentalism. But hey; wouldnt life be dull if we all thought the same thing |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2014, John C wrote: i didn't see it as a challenge, I thought we were just talking?!
I've asked to be banned
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TheAmazingSteveo Inner circle 1581 Posts |
Just received this today. This is a VERY COOL idea/gimmick. This is something I will be using!
Pure Genius!!! |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2014, IAIN wrote: Life is a challenge. What if one could predict every move any one could make. Or,if one could influence another to make certain choices .... I've thought about this alot. (Key fob to the rescue) |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Lovin it......
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A.G. Special user Vancouver- Canada 960 Posts |
Hi guys,
I wanted to chime in and suggest something for those interested in making a bit more sense of the gimmick and why you have written this prediction and placed it on a keychain. As always, premise and framing seems to be the missing element that gives a structure to an effect. Maybe this little script will help. "I find it really interesting that everyone feels like their decisions are unique. Most of the time that's true, BUT....I have found a way to make every single person make the exact same decisions every single time when given any 3 options. Now even though I have openly confessed this to you, and you realize I will be trying to "force you" to do what I need you to do to make this work. STILL... you will be compelled to biologically respond to the actions and the words of what I am about to ask you to do... are you ready? good we need 3 very specific items, do you have a coin....."? So if they believe what you are doing is real, which they should on some level, they understand that you have a way of controlling there decisions by having an understanding of how their mind works. Effectively, better than they do. In this way, the key fob makes sense, that somehow, everyone must do the same thing and that you carry this as a matter of convenience and accessibility, best, AG
Well then...
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