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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Getting 3 gimmicks, is it redundant? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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sandsjr
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Phren, get some posts under your belt and make your way downstairs to show people you are serious. There will be lots of help down there.

Remember, like anything new in life, it's a process. Everything you buy, study, learn, whether you think it's good or bad, gets you more experience. It's a process and the process takes time. Enjoy the process!
MVoss
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Boston, MA
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Bob Cassidy shows how to make a really great and cheap NW in one of his books, I think in one of the Doctor Crow book? He teaches it in his Penguin lecture, that's where I saw it.
mastermindreader
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Yes- It's in The Resurrection of Doctor Crow. IMO its the cheapest, best, and most practical writer I've ever used.
dannywu
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Super Sharpie is pretty good but definitely has its flaws such as the b**n drying out easily. As for the pad, I'd recommend the parapad over psypher.
Phren
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Quote:
On Nov 10, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
The question you asked though is like asking which of 3 types of hammers or which of 3 screwdrivers is best.

You said your a card guy that wants to get into this stuff. So the better question for you is why you are so focused on the tools when it might be better to learn something about performance. Getting inf@ is easy - you could do that with a billet and pencil. The art is how it is fed back and that's to be found not in hammers, screwdrivers or Sharpies but rather in books of which others here can provide their recommendations.

So my point is your focused on the wrong thing. Im sure I know what Jay F is pm'ing you but even that is just another excellent type of hammer. Without the knowledge to be found in books, it will likely become a pricey paperweight in your drawer.

I'm sorry if I didn't communicate correctly. My question is based on the lack of knowledge what these gimmicks do. If they are 3 hammers, then just telling me so and say I just need 1 of those hammers would suffice. I understand that people need to know the basics and the focus would be on presentation. As my first post tried to communicate was that I do focus on those things and spend quite some time practising till perfection. However, I've found that a N*** ****r is a nice and valuable tool for a mentalist and I merely was looking for a replacement from pencil to sharpie so I'm able to present to a larger audience.
About the Psypher, I thought a pad would be a nice addition. It seems people here are more enthousiastic about this parapad which I haven't heard of yet till now
The Xpert is a completly unknown gimmick to me. As I pay about 30 dollars shipping cost when I buy something, I thought I would give it a shot.

I understand that from a more experienced point of view, as yours seem to be, these gimmicks might seem useless. However, Experience need to be gained and gimmicks do make that easier.
Quote:
On Nov 10, 2014, jstreiff wrote:
Remember that magicians and mentalists approach mystery performance differently. For the magician it is all about accumulating effects and methods. For the mentalist, it is first about developing character and persona, from that determining claims and abilities and then and only then deciding what effects are consistent and sensible given that character, persona and those claims. Method is the last thing mentalists are concerned about, unlike magicians. So a change of approach is the first thing someone coming to mentalism from magic must deal with. Everything else then eventually falls into place. You will discover that most all the greats of mentalism concur on these points.

Indeed, Method is probably the last thing a Mentalist is concerned about, but why do you assume my character development needs work? Just because I ask questions about gimmicks? If you'd like I can give you a whole desciption of my persona and presentation of abilities.
Quote:
On Nov 10, 2014, Freddan wrote:
Buying gimmicks, sometimes stuff that will end up in the drawer, is a part of discovering and learning about magic and mentalism. I have a bunch of stuff I don't use that have played an importerna role in my development as a magician and in learning and understanding basic principles. So read a review (Google) or buy and find out for your self.

Thank you for this as I fully agree. I'm almost looking forward to add the gimmicks to the 'never use again'-drawer. It will mean I've gained more experience by performance and not through theory.

I'm sleightly surprised (which I shouldn't be) about the assumption that people make about me not focussing on the right thing. My presentational work is fine and just because someone has interest in the expansion of his props doesn't mean he's walking the wrong path.

With that said, Thank you to the people who are answering my questions. I did not know of this 'ParaPad' people are talking about, I'll look into that. The Xpert was first a strong candidate (after my research with google) but doesn't seem to win that much in this conversation. I will leave it for now.

I Understand most people here are just trying to help and I greaty appreciate that, so thank you.
MatCult
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I'd like to point out that neither I, nor any other professional mentalist, would ever use a "writer" (such as the ones you can find HERE by simply Googling the terms from this thread). Only amateur magicians use such things.

Also note that mentalists don't use "gimmicks".

Wink face Smile
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
Phren
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Quote:
On Nov 11, 2014, MatCult wrote:
I'd like to point out that neither I, nor any other professional mentalist, would ever use a "writer" (such as the ones you can find HERE by simply Googling the terms from this thread). Only amateur magicians use such things.

Also note that mentalists don't use "gimmicks".

Wink face Smile
I don't really mind being defined an amateur magician if that means I'm able to grow towards something I'd like to become.
I Have to admit I did not know of the term 'listo writer', which probably is caused by the fact that English is not my native language and 'Listo' is not a known word to me.

Also:
- "I'd like to point out that neither I, nor any other professional mentalist, would ever use a "writer"
- "Only amateur magicians use such things."
- "Also note that mentalists don't use "gimmicks"."

I believe that not using gimmicks doesn't make anyone professional. I've seen Luke Jermay use marked decks(one of his workshops), Seen Derren Brown use a Swami gimmick and single face decks (on DVD) and I've read that David berglas has used stooges.

Why try to do things without gimmicks if it's not the method that counts but the effect you have on your public? If a gimmick helps me do a better job, why shouldn't I use it? just because it's not cool? or professional?

@all: I'm feeling a good amount of judgement in this thread which I was unprepared for. Luckily there are plenty of good people helping me in my development and I thank thee. However, the 'warmth' that was promised in the welcome topics is far to be found. I have a feeling I need to defend myself for a simple question which can only be asked on forums like these. I hope I'm misinterpeting many comments and it's the weather that has clouded my judgement.
saysold1
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Phren-

You've gotten some very helpful and friendly responses. Sadly you seem a bit insecure and overly sensitive with the answers generously provided to you. You are certainly misinterpreting things and starting off on the wrong foot here.

The type of question you asked - which of 3 gimmicks etc is best? Is a question we see here on this section often. It's certainly not a bad question but we see this asked a lot especially from Magicians (of which I and many of us were at one time). If you want us to know more about your background please feel free to share with us - but it us natural to make assumptions based on your initial questions.

Thicken your skin a little Phren - people here are generously trying to help you including me. No one has insulted you. You are new here and it takes time to create a relationship. If you dip your toes in the water and ask a question then be prepared for a variety of answers. Some may be helpful and others might not be applicable to you - but if you can't handle the fire stay out of the kitchen.

On these forums done of the top performers in the world offer their wisdom along with everything from part time hobbiests and in between. That's a great resource and we are here to help. Good luck.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Martin Pulman
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Phren,


Your list of gimmicks and the mentalists you claim use them seems incomplete. Any chance you could expose some more of them on a public forum?

Thanks.

Regards,
Martin
Galileo
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Somerville MA
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Quote:
On Nov 11, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Phren,


Your list of gimmicks and the mentalists you claim use them seems incomplete. Any chance you could expose some more of them on a public forum?

Thanks.

Regards,
Martin


Yeah really it feels lacking to me.Jokes aside phren don't talk so in depth like this in penny please, get 50 posts and go downstairs.
mastermindreader
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Phren-

The post suggesting that no mentalists use such gimmicks was a subtle hint that we don't openly talk about these things in the public areas of the Café.
Phren
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Quote:
On Nov 11, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
Phren-

You've gotten some very helpful and friendly responses. Sadly you seem a bit insecure and overly sensitive with the answers generously provided to you. You are certainly misinterpreting things and starting off on the wrong foot here.

The type of question you asked - which of 3 gimmicks etc is best? Is a question we see here on this section often. It's certainly not a bad question but we see this asked a lot especially from Magicians (of which I and many of us were at one time). If you want us to know more about your background please feel free to share with us - but it us natural to make assumptions based on your initial questions.

Thicken your skin a little Phren - people here are generously trying to help you including me. No one has insulted you. You are new here and it takes time to create a relationship. If you dip your toes in the water and ask a question then be prepared for a variety of answers. Some may be helpful and others might not be applicable to you - but if you can't handle the fire stay out of the kitchen.

On these forums done of the top performers in the world offer their wisdom along with everything from part time hobbiests and in between. That's a great resource and we are here to help. Good luck.


It seems this is a matter of miscommunication. The question 'which is best' is something I would prefer to research for myself. You might wish to re-read the first post as my questions was about redundance.
I thank the people for their help and the felt judgement was probably because of the miscommunication.

I apologise about the openness of my talking.. I wanted to edit it but are unable to at the moment. I've reported it and hope a moderator will make the adjustments needed.
IAIN
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Don't worry about it..it happens..we all have had the odd argument and strange miscommunications happen...no one got shot did they...

we used to have a sticky thread that some of us put together to try and help out new people, but it got removed...shame - but there you go...most people don't realise that the forum is googleable, and if we talk too openly up here, we can give away a bit too much...

i'm sure you'll wrack up 50 posts in no time - and hey, if you wanna spend your money on stuff you might not use, go for it...there's loads of stuff reviewed in Mentally Speaking and Latest and Greatest...go for it...
I've asked to be banned
bevbevvybev
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Read lots of books. Start with Bob's list. The most you'll probably do is spend a few afternoons in Staples, although you may find yourself buying a special wallet of some sort (some are actually worth having). I'd also recommend Osterlind's videos (and Bob's of course).

One of the main problems probably is that you haven't seen enough mentalism performed in the first place. Once you've seen a load, you'll realise just how few props there really are.

You know you're a mentalist when: you can entertain everyone for an hour with nothing more than a few scraps of paper and a pen, if that.

:)
bevbevvybev
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Oh yeah, I forgot. READ LOTS OF BOOKS. Well I did say that, but I'm saying it again. Books retain their value, look nice on your shelf, show you how people actually THINK.

If you want to leap straight in to thinking like a mentalist, buy PS1.
Scott Soloff
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Quote:
On Nov 11, 2014, bevbevvybev wrote:

You know you're a mentalist when: you can entertain everyone for an hour with nothing more than a few scraps of paper and a pen, if that.

:)


Well said!

Best,


Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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