The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Bad News for Anyone Selling Magic ebooks or Downloads (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
The way around the VAT in EU for magicians selling on site, is to offer e-books or tricks "for free" to the people who do a donation (wikipedia style for example, BUT DON'T PRESENT THE DONATION AS A CONDITION)... Expressing the minimum for the donation just has to be subtle like "with a donation of xxx as an average for this type of e-book, we should be able to keep on producing free e-books in the future"... Naturally if the donation is not sufficient, publishers of e-books may encounter technical downloading problems on their "free" download, and reimburse the (under average) donation for the same technical reasons ("Sorry the system isn't geared to handle donations which are that small, we apologize and thank you for your generous thoughts").

After all aren't we, magicians, admitted professional liers... Smile
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Caliban
View Profile
Special user
727 Posts

Profile of Caliban
My reading of the links (and I'm also not a tax expert) is that anyone based in the UK selling ebooks to customers in their own country would not be affected. It also looks like those in Europe selling to the US might be unaffected.

The issue comes when you start selling ebooks to EU countries that you don't live in. By the look of it, VAT thresholds could still apply in those countries, so it may be just a case of registering for VAT but not having to pay any because you are below the threshold. In some EU countries, though, the threshold is zero.

Looking for loopholes probably won't work as Amazon have much more expensive specialist tax accountants than we do. If "renting" ebooks or a donation system could work then Amazon would be doing it. The simple solution would be to sell your ebooks direct to customers in your own country and have someone else sell them on your behalf in other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if companies like Lybrary started offering a service where they exclusively represent some American ebooks just for the European market.

When this new VAT system gets established, almost certainly a magician or magic dealer in each EU country will see a business opportunity and set themselves up as the distributor for magic ebooks in that country. So a German magician will establish the magic ebook store for Germany, and anyone wanting to sell their ebooks to German customers will license them through that store.
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, JoelDickinson wrote:
Would a password to a webpage be a solution?


No. You would still be charging for a digital service.
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Caliban wrote:
My reading of the links (and I'm also not a tax expert) is that anyone based in the UK selling ebooks to customers in their own country would not be affected. It also looks like those in Europe selling to the US might be unaffected.

The issue comes when you start selling ebooks to EU countries that you don't live in. By the look of it, VAT thresholds could still apply in those countries, so it may be just a case of registering for VAT but not having to pay any because you are below the threshold. In some EU countries, though, the threshold is zero.
store.


If you are a small business in the UK under £81k turnover, you won't need to register for tax AS LONG as you don't sell any digital products or services to a customer living outside of the UK. However, if you do sell one, or can't limit your services by location, you will need to register.
The reason is that you have to register in the country that the buyer lives in and do a return in that country every quarter. That's not practical and financially crippling for a small business with such a low turnover. The only way around that is to register with the MOSS system. That allow you to just do one return for all your combined sales in all of the EU
countries. However, by signing up to MOSS you have to become registered for VAT in the UK, so then you also would have to charge tax on all sales including physical goods. All because you sold a £3 download to someone outside the UK :-(

Remember, unless you use MOSS (which requires you to be vat registered in your own country), you have to register in each and every EU country you sell too. That's an unrealistic task and expense tracking and preparing accounts for a start-up/hobby.

You are right that using a larger magic company that is already vat registered to sell your downloads in Europe would fix that issue for you. But for the UK sales that you want to handle youself, you may find it hard to limit download sales by location to exclude Europe whist allowing U.S sales automatically, without having to make the download sale process less than 'instant'.
Lseeyou
View Profile
Inner circle
1267 Posts

Profile of Lseeyou
Hi Dominic,

It's interesting you coming up here talking about VAT!
A few time ago, tried to BUY from your magicshop as a Business with an European Valid VAT for trades but your magicshop didn't want to sell anything in that legal terms. I wonder how legal is your work because running away from a standard legal Business trade, I wonder too where the VAT that you charge on-line is going to.

If you want expert accounting legal help talk to my associates - we are a Business group and Finance/Accountabilty is one of our expertises.
We are member of Transparency International organization.

I will not bother copy paste the answer I got from "Merchant of Magic" because beside being illegal what is written you wouldn't like it and I can respect that.

Thank you
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Hi Lseeyou,

Thanks for reaching out to me. I'm sorry our magic shop didn't want to do business with you on those terms, but I would be happy to talk with you associates regarding expert accounting legal help. Drop the shop an email and we can follow that up with you.

Best wished as always and I hope the magic is going well for you.

Dominic
Jamie Ferguson
View Profile
Inner circle
Alba Gu Brąth
3642 Posts

Profile of Jamie Ferguson
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Lseeyou wrote:
Hi Dominic,

It's interesting you coming up here talking about VAT!
A few time ago, tried to BUY from your magicshop as a Business with an European Valid VAT for trades but your magicshop didn't want to sell anything in that legal terms. I wonder how legal is your work because running away from a standard legal Business trade, I wonder too where the VAT that you charge on-line is going to.

If you want expert accounting legal help talk to my associates - we are a Business group and Finance/Accountabilty is one of our expertises.
We are member of Transparency International organization.

I will not bother copy paste the answer I got from "Merchant of Magic" because beside being illegal what is written you wouldn't like it and I can respect that.

Thank you

Hmmm, sounds suspicious! Smile
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Lol, Jamie.... you do crack me up... Smile
JoeJoe
View Profile
Inner circle
Myrtle Beach
1910 Posts

Profile of JoeJoe
So do we get representation for these VAT taxes?? Just curious. Smile

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
Jamie Ferguson
View Profile
Inner circle
Alba Gu Brąth
3642 Posts

Profile of Jamie Ferguson
I'm not trying to be funny Dominic.

I think what Lseeyou said is very suspicious.

It's as though he's trying to give your business a bad name for some reason.

I, and many others know, you are a stand up magic dealer.

Lseeyou, please don't undermine The Merchant of Magic in a public forum without good reason. Smile
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
Lseeyou
View Profile
Inner circle
1267 Posts

Profile of Lseeyou
Hi Dominic,

Everything great at this side, magic is not my full time job so I do it when I can. Thank you for your interest!
Regarding you do Business with me, you couldn't do it because you couldn't face a legal trade.
I will put you in touch with the person responsible for that area so you could contact and request help.

Jamie please do interpret as you will like - I know what I wrote and sorry I don't own you any explanation.

Take care
John C
View Profile
Eternal Order
I THINK therefore I wrote
12052 Posts

Profile of John C
I only ask for donations for my ebooks.
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Jamie Ferguson
View Profile
Inner circle
Alba Gu Brąth
3642 Posts

Profile of Jamie Ferguson
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Lseeyou wrote:
Hi Dominic,

Everything great at this side, magic is not my full time job so I do it when I can. Thank you for your interest!
Regarding you do Business with me, you couldn't do it because you couldn't face a legal trade.
I will put you in touch with the person responsible for that area so you could contact and request help.

Jamie please do interpret as you will like - I know what I wrote and sorry I don't own you any explanation.

Take care

If you're not prepared to explain yourself then please don't bring legal issues you're having with a company into the public domain.

Keep things to PM next time.

Sheesh! Smile

Dominic, I'm not surprised you don't want to do business with this guy.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, John C wrote:
I only ask for donations for my ebooks.


Are the donations to charity? That would be a different matter and tax relief can come into play, but if the donations are to you... Not so much Smile
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1417 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Dominic Reyes wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, John C wrote:
I only ask for donations for my ebooks.


Are the donations to charity? That would be a different matter and tax relief could come into play? But if the donations are to you... I don't think that is an exemption, just a variable pricing policy Smile
yachanin
View Profile
Inner circle
Cleveland, OH
2075 Posts

Profile of yachanin
[Appearing directly above the "Buy Now" PayPal button]: "By purchasing this manuscript, you affirm that you are not an EU resident."

Would that relieve a US seller from any liability in collecting the VAT? I'm sure people would tell the truth and, if they were a resident of an EU country, would not purchase the manuscript.

Regards, Steve
Tom Jorgenson
View Profile
Inner circle
LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA
4452 Posts

Profile of Tom Jorgenson
Ooooh! That's a good one.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
John C
View Profile
Eternal Order
I THINK therefore I wrote
12052 Posts

Profile of John C
These a holes can you know what. Let em at me.
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Caliban
View Profile
Special user
727 Posts

Profile of Caliban
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, yachanin wrote:
[Appearing directly above the "Buy Now" PayPal button]: "By purchasing this manuscript, you affirm that you are not an EU resident."

Would that relieve a US seller from any liability in collecting the VAT? I'm sure people would tell the truth and, if they were a resident of an EU country, would not purchase the manuscript.

Regards, Steve


With PayPal there's always a shipping address for the customer. Even when buying downloadable products. It would be easy to check. It might make "instant" downloads more difficult, though.
JackMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
1820 Posts

Profile of JackMagic
Out of intrest in the UK , we might have a vote next year to decide if we want to stay in EU or not

I assume if we leave then this rule will stay with Brussels ?

If that's the case I can see why people are getting fed up of beaning dictated to by Brussels
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Bad News for Anyone Selling Magic ebooks or Downloads (14 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL