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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts 
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The way around the VAT in EU for magicians selling on site, is to offer e-books or tricks "for free" to the people who do a donation (wikipedia style for example, BUT DON'T PRESENT THE DONATION AS A CONDITION)... Expressing the minimum for the donation just has to be subtle like "with a donation of xxx as an average for this type of e-book, we should be able to keep on producing free e-books in the future"... Naturally if the donation is not sufficient, publishers of e-books may encounter technical downloading problems on their "free" download, and reimburse the (under average) donation for the same technical reasons ("Sorry the system isn't geared to handle donations which are that small, we apologize and thank you for your generous thoughts").
After all aren't we, magicians, admitted professional liers... 
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Caliban Special user 727 Posts
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My reading of the links (and I'm also not a tax expert) is that anyone based in the UK selling ebooks to customers in their own country would not be affected. It also looks like those in Europe selling to the US might be unaffected.
The issue comes when you start selling ebooks to EU countries that you don't live in. By the look of it, VAT thresholds could still apply in those countries, so it may be just a case of registering for VAT but not having to pay any because you are below the threshold. In some EU countries, though, the threshold is zero. Looking for loopholes probably won't work as Amazon have much more expensive specialist tax accountants than we do. If "renting" ebooks or a donation system could work then Amazon would be doing it. The simple solution would be to sell your ebooks direct to customers in your own country and have someone else sell them on your behalf in other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if companies like Lybrary started offering a service where they exclusively represent some American ebooks just for the European market. When this new VAT system gets established, almost certainly a magician or magic dealer in each EU country will see a business opportunity and set themselves up as the distributor for magic ebooks in that country. So a German magician will establish the magic ebook store for Germany, and anyone wanting to sell their ebooks to German customers will license them through that store. |
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, JoelDickinson wrote: No. You would still be charging for a digital service.
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Caliban wrote: If you are a small business in the UK under £81k turnover, you won't need to register for tax AS LONG as you don't sell any digital products or services to a customer living outside of the UK. However, if you do sell one, or can't limit your services by location, you will need to register. The reason is that you have to register in the country that the buyer lives in and do a return in that country every quarter. That's not practical and financially crippling for a small business with such a low turnover. The only way around that is to register with the MOSS system. That allow you to just do one return for all your combined sales in all of the EU countries. However, by signing up to MOSS you have to become registered for VAT in the UK, so then you also would have to charge tax on all sales including physical goods. All because you sold a £3 download to someone outside the UK :-( Remember, unless you use MOSS (which requires you to be vat registered in your own country), you have to register in each and every EU country you sell too. That's an unrealistic task and expense tracking and preparing accounts for a start-up/hobby. You are right that using a larger magic company that is already vat registered to sell your downloads in Europe would fix that issue for you. But for the UK sales that you want to handle youself, you may find it hard to limit download sales by location to exclude Europe whist allowing U.S sales automatically, without having to make the download sale process less than 'instant'.
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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Lseeyou Inner circle 1271 Posts
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Hi Dominic,
It's interesting you coming up here talking about VAT! A few time ago, tried to BUY from your magicshop as a Business with an European Valid VAT for trades but your magicshop didn't want to sell anything in that legal terms. I wonder how legal is your work because running away from a standard legal Business trade, I wonder too where the VAT that you charge on-line is going to. If you want expert accounting legal help talk to my associates - we are a Business group and Finance/Accountabilty is one of our expertises. We are member of Transparency International organization. I will not bother copy paste the answer I got from "Merchant of Magic" because beside being illegal what is written you wouldn't like it and I can respect that. Thank you |
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Hi Lseeyou,
Thanks for reaching out to me. I'm sorry our magic shop didn't want to do business with you on those terms, but I would be happy to talk with you associates regarding expert accounting legal help. Drop the shop an email and we can follow that up with you. Best wished as always and I hope the magic is going well for you. Dominic
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Lseeyou wrote: Hmmm, sounds suspicious! 
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Lol, Jamie.... you do crack me up...
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts
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So do we get representation for these VAT taxes?? Just curious.
-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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I'm not trying to be funny Dominic.
I think what Lseeyou said is very suspicious. It's as though he's trying to give your business a bad name for some reason. I, and many others know, you are a stand up magic dealer. Lseeyou, please don't undermine The Merchant of Magic in a public forum without good reason. 
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Lseeyou Inner circle 1271 Posts
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Hi Dominic,
Everything great at this side, magic is not my full time job so I do it when I can. Thank you for your interest! Regarding you do Business with me, you couldn't do it because you couldn't face a legal trade. I will put you in touch with the person responsible for that area so you could contact and request help. Jamie please do interpret as you will like - I know what I wrote and sorry I don't own you any explanation. Take care |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12968 Posts
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I only ask for donations for my ebooks.
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, Lseeyou wrote: If you're not prepared to explain yourself then please don't bring legal issues you're having with a company into the public domain. Keep things to PM next time. Sheesh!
Dominic, I'm not surprised you don't want to do business with this guy.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, John C wrote: Are the donations to charity? That would be a different matter and tax relief can come into play, but if the donations are to you... Not so much
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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Dominic Reyes Inner circle Got to a gig too early so wrote his 1429 Posts
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Quote: On Nov 22, 2014, Dominic Reyes wrote:
MagicShop.co.uk - The Merchant of Magic
Free Ebook: Approaching Magic Practice. Free Ebook: Why Magicians Don't Get the Fee's They Feel They Deserve Free Ebook: How to Avoid the Pitfalls of Performing Magic to your Family and Friends |
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yachanin Inner circle Cleveland, OH 2105 Posts
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[Appearing directly above the "Buy Now" PayPal button]: "By purchasing this manuscript, you affirm that you are not an EU resident."
Would that relieve a US seller from any liability in collecting the VAT? I'm sure people would tell the truth and, if they were a resident of an EU country, would not purchase the manuscript. Regards, Steve
"Impossible? Your audience will think so..." TM
Thought Association Card Triangulation Word Search Detective Christmas Eve Sights - Start A Family Tradition |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts
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Ooooh! That's a good one.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12968 Posts
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These a holes can you know what. Let em at me.
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Caliban Special user 727 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 22, 2014, yachanin wrote: With PayPal there's always a shipping address for the customer. Even when buying downloadable products. It would be easy to check. It might make "instant" downloads more difficult, though. |
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JackMagic Inner circle 1987 Posts
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Out of intrest in the UK , we might have a vote next year to decide if we want to stay in EU or not
I assume if we leave then this rule will stay with Brussels ? If that's the case I can see why people are getting fed up of beaning dictated to by Brussels |
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Posted: Nov 22, 2014 09:06 am 
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